Question:
broken link
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The story is on : > www.observer.co.uk/magazine/story/0,11913,846295,00 >I haven’t noticed any comments on the article in the Observer about >the use of Tricyclic Antidepressants in the alleviation of some forms >of chronic pain .
Response:
I’m sure you realize that there is a difference between physical dependence and addiction. If you don’t, search the Google archives for numerous posts on the topic. Benzos are excellent medications. You taper on, become physically dependent, and if you want to go off, you taper off. As the analogy goes: are insulin-dependent pateints addicted? Are the many people on this ng who take pain meds daily addicted? Are people on antidepressants addicted? Please think about and learn the difference between "addiction" and proper use of medication before you tell someone not to take an effective medicine. Jennifer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Martin >"I need to take Ambien for sleep, but, my doctor would rather >have me take it than a low dose of elavil – he sees Ambien as a much safer >drug." >If this is true then your doctor is a real moron. While not a benzo, it >works in similar fashion and is just as addicting and has a very short half >life. Want problems similar to benzo addiction ? >www.benzo.org.uk > I took large doses of Elavil for about ten years to help with daily > headaches and migraines (3-4 per month). Was up to about 200 mg daily. I > moved from Dallas to Ogden, Utah and started seeing a new psychiatrist. >He > asked about the Elavil (I was really depressed) and I told him that it was > for both depression and pain. His personal opinion (and one shared by >many > of his colleagues – he also was a professor of psychiatry for about 10 > years) is that the pain relieving affect of Tricyclic Anti-Depressants is > much overrated. My doctor said that the mood benefits of anti-depressants > is very helpful in pain management, but that the TCAs have too many side > affects. > He took my off the Elavil and Serzone (newer anti-depressant that sucks) >and > put me on Prozac. My mood improved. My headaches did not get any worse, > but over time have gotten much better. > My personal experience with Elavil is that I gained weight, had a hard >time > waking up in the morning, and got really constipated. I’ll never go back >to > the stuff. I need to take Ambien for sleep, but, my doctor would rather > have me take it than a low dose of elavil – he sees Ambien as a much safer > drug. > My psychiatrist still, with the addition of my back pain, has not >mentioned > Elavil or any of its buddies. He interviews me much closer with my back >to > see how my life is going with the pain. He sees how pain can be a monster > in people’s lives unless treated properly. He is totally supportive of me > taking Oxycontin and other meds for breakthrough. (He is an avid skier > also, I really like the guy.) > Martin > > I haven’t noticed any comments on the article in the Observer about > > the use of Tricyclic Antidepressants in the alleviation of some forms > > of chronic pain .
Response:
Martin ….and your wife glad you both found it as thought provoking as I did…and I certainly agree with your feelings…these CAN be wonder drugs,,,when prescribed carefully and monitored closely…not handed out like candy to shut people up… I will keep you in mind as I peruse other sources…but that was a real eye opener to me…as obviously it was to you two…not that it represented "studies" but more like "common sense" that maybe more medical practitioners need to remember they still have… cheers..Martin.. rb Hawki
Response:
Martin "I need to take Ambien for sleep, but, my doctor would rather have me take it than a low dose of elavil – he sees Ambien as a much safer drug." If this is true then your doctor is a real moron. While not a benzo, it works in similar fashion and is just as addicting and has a very short half life. Want problems similar to benzo addiction ? www.benzo.org.uk – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I took large doses of Elavil for about ten years to help with daily > headaches and migraines (3-4 per month). Was up to about 200 mg daily. I > moved from Dallas to Ogden, Utah and started seeing a new psychiatrist. He > asked about the Elavil (I was really depressed) and I told him that it was > for both depression and pain. His personal opinion (and one shared by many > of his colleagues – he also was a professor of psychiatry for about 10 > years) is that the pain relieving affect of Tricyclic Anti-Depressants is > much overrated. My doctor said that the mood benefits of anti-depressants > is very helpful in pain management, but that the TCAs have too many side > affects. > He took my off the Elavil and Serzone (newer anti-depressant that sucks) and > put me on Prozac. My mood improved. My headaches did not get any worse, > but over time have gotten much better. > My personal experience with Elavil is that I gained weight, had a hard time > waking up in the morning, and got really constipated. I’ll never go back to > the stuff. I need to take Ambien for sleep, but, my doctor would rather > have me take it than a low dose of elavil – he sees Ambien as a much safer > drug. > My psychiatrist still, with the addition of my back pain, has not mentioned > Elavil or any of its buddies. He interviews me much closer with my back to > see how my life is going with the pain. He sees how pain can be a monster > in people’s lives unless treated properly. He is totally supportive of me > taking Oxycontin and other meds for breakthrough. (He is an avid skier > also, I really like the guy.) > Martin > I haven’t noticed any comments on the article in the Observer about > the use of Tricyclic Antidepressants in the alleviation of some forms > of chronic pain .
Response:
The story is on : www.observer.co.uk/magazine/story/0,11913,846295,00 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I haven’t noticed any comments on the article in the Observer about >the use of Tricyclic Antidepressants in the alleviation of some forms >of chronic pain .
Response:
If the stuff you’ve been reading is on the web, could you send me the links?? thanks, Martin
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Martin > I’m sorry…what I meant to say..do you have a link to the Observer or > whatever..that talked about TCA and pain relief link…personally I have been > reading more and more that other than maybe their help in sleep > disturbances…TCA’s really are not all that effective..if at all..in pain > relief..tho..as with anything..we all are different..so am sure there are some > here who will have different experience.. > Actually I read this week..not sure if it was in a journal or the LA Times > that there is even a lot of controversary about "antidepressants" and what they > actually afford the human organism…perhaps trading the "depression,,,ie > negative for sure response" for a "flat..ie also a negative response"…not to > mention the sexual side effects (which this source quoted as being > significantly higher than previously reported)…I sorta got a mental image of > a sort of zombie…it described how writers had lost the initiative to > write..painters to paint..etc..you know..creativity..while of course not in a > black depression …and also not to mention the weight gain issues…problems > getting off some of these meds…etc etc.. > funny how things change….hopefully for the better?? > rb > Hawki
Response:
Martin.. Actually the LA times on Mondays has a Health section…I am quite sure that is where I read the most recent stuff…will have to see if we still have it…I know the times is available online.. NO..I get a gazillion medical/nursing journals coming thru the house each month..which is why I lose track of what I read WHERE….from now on..I will try and KEEP the article and can at least give you an idea of how to track it down… I must admit I was a bit surprised (no..not personally…since I had experienced all the negative side effects of antideps)…to read that MAYBE it isn’t always such a good idea to just "smother" if that is what we are doing…the emotions//chemicals..whatever…only to later discover that the "zest for life" has also been smothered…has to be a better way… will search for that article..and keep you in mind as I read further…it surely is a fascinating..if not.."depressing" topic (not funny!) rb Hawki
Response:
thanks rb Hawki
Response:
Martin Only for you (grin) would I actually dig thru the trash on thanksgiving Day…but it was the LA Times!!! and I did find it…I can’t provide a link..alas.. But I entered LATimes.com into my browser..hit Health on the left column…then a list of the articles eventually came up…title is "life with depression,,or life with dull feeling"… Unfortunately..when I clicked on the title..I got a screen that said I had to "register"..but that it was free…so I stopped there…but you may want to take the time to do the register stuff…it is an intersting piece..and leaves much to think about…not a scientific study…written by a psychiatrist in Boston.. Just an a clip…"While prozac and others ….increases specific chemical tramissions in some parts of the brain,,it inhibits others elsewhere"……"the cursed feelings are gone…but so are the blessed ones." I found that statement alone to be profound… If you would like…I would be happy to snail mail it to you…but it is just a short piece and you should be able to access it online.. peace…Martin rb Hawki
Response:
I am honored that you’d dig through the trash for me!! (grin – LOL) I registered on latimes.com and looked up this article – very good article. The findings that the journalist wrote out just confirm to me that these are powerful medicines and should only be used when needed. I see some of the folks who post comments in our group who are trying to self-medicate with some of the "internet pharmacies" that require no prescription and I see that this could be disasterous. My wife and I spoke about this article for awhile last night. This stuff is important to us – we have two kids – our older son is 14 and has bipolar disorder, our younger is 10 and has autism. We’ve spent a lot of time and money with psychiatrists, psychologists, the pharmacy, and psychiatric hospitals. For me, anti-depressants (prozac for me) have been a godsend. But, prior to being put on this medicine, my doctor took a long time making sure that the diagnosis of depression was accurate. (A psychiatrist in Dallas started me on anti-depressants 10 years ago, my good doc in Utah changed me to Prozac 4 1/2 years ago.) With me, the "joyous" parts of life weren’t possible anymore, but with proper medication, the joy came back. I’ve known of doctors prescribing anti-depressants without taking time to diagnos the patient or to follow up to see how it is doing. Depression is a very serious disease with a mortality rate of about 10-15% if not treated properly. That is what the medicine is for. There are times when somebody is just "down" for a short period but not truly "depressed". There is a big difference. We have also learned with our son Ben that anti-depressants can be extremely dangerous for somebody with bi-polar disorder. They can "push" the person into a manic phase, which can have deadly consequences. The psychiatric medicines have saved my little family. I have extended family members whose physicians write out Zoloft to be taken "prn" with a prescription that allows enough refills for a year. Pretty scary. There is no monitoring of the patient who is being treated for a disease with that high of a mortality rate. Enough rambling. I’ll print this article and take it to my psychiatrist in January. He’ll find it interesting too! Martin
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Martin > Only for you (grin) would I actually dig thru the trash on thanksgiving > Day…but it was the LA Times!!! and I did find it…I can’t provide a > link..alas.. > But I entered LATimes.com into my browser..hit Health on the left column…then > a list of the articles eventually came up…title is "life with depression,,or > life with dull feeling"… > Unfortunately..when I clicked on the title..I got a screen that said I had to > "register"..but that it was free…so I stopped there…but you may want to > take the time to do the register stuff…it is an intersting piece..and leaves > much to think about…not a scientific study…written by a psychiatrist in > Boston.. > Just an a clip…"While prozac and others ….increases specific chemical > tramissions in some parts of the brain,,it inhibits others
elsewhere"……"the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> cursed feelings are gone…but so are the blessed ones." > I found that statement alone to be profound… > If you would like…I would be happy to snail mail it to you…but it is just a > short piece and you should be able to access it online.. > peace…Martin > rb > Hawki
Response:
Martin I’m sorry…what I meant to say..do you have a link to the Observer or whatever..that talked about TCA and pain relief link…personally I have been reading more and more that other than maybe their help in sleep disturbances…TCA’s really are not all that effective..if at all..in pain relief..tho..as with anything..we all are different..so am sure there are some here who will have different experience.. Actually I read this week..not sure if it was in a journal or the LA Times that there is even a lot of controversary about "antidepressants" and what they actually afford the human organism…perhaps trading the "depression,,,ie negative for sure response" for a "flat..ie also a negative response"…not to mention the sexual side effects (which this source quoted as being significantly higher than previously reported)…I sorta got a mental image of a sort of zombie…it described how writers had lost the initiative to write..painters to paint..etc..you know..creativity..while of course not in a black depression …and also not to mention the weight gain issues…problems getting off some of these meds…etc etc.. funny how things change….hopefully for the better?? rb Hawki
Response:
I’ll see if my psychiatrist (does not believe that they have the trycyclics (sp???) have the pain benefits) can point me to any literature that supports his views, other than his clinical experience. I don’t see him for 6 weeks, but I’ll drop him a note. He’s a great doc. Martin
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->he article in the Observer about >the use of Tricyclic Antidepressants in the alleviation of some forms >of chronic pain . > Hmmm > A lot of us have gone…or still are on this route…for some time now…so > unless they discovered something "new"….do you have a link I can check out??? > thanks > rb > Hawki
Response:
>he article in the Observer about >the use of Tricyclic Antidepressants in the alleviation of some forms >of chronic pain .
Hmmm A lot of us have gone…or still are on this route…for some time now…so unless they discovered something "new"….do you have a link I can check out??? thanks rb Hawki
Response:
I haven’t noticed any comments on the article in the Observer about the use of Tricyclic Antidepressants in the alleviation of some forms of chronic pain .
Response:
I took large doses of Elavil for about ten years to help with daily headaches and migraines (3-4 per month). Was up to about 200 mg daily. I moved from Dallas to Ogden, Utah and started seeing a new psychiatrist. He asked about the Elavil (I was really depressed) and I told him that it was for both depression and pain. His personal opinion (and one shared by many of his colleagues – he also was a professor of psychiatry for about 10 years) is that the pain relieving affect of Tricyclic Anti-Depressants is much overrated. My doctor said that the mood benefits of anti-depressants is very helpful in pain management, but that the TCAs have too many side affects. He took my off the Elavil and Serzone (newer anti-depressant that sucks) and put me on Prozac. My mood improved. My headaches did not get any worse, but over time have gotten much better. My personal experience with Elavil is that I gained weight, had a hard time waking up in the morning, and got really constipated. I’ll never go back to the stuff. I need to take Ambien for sleep, but, my doctor would rather have me take it than a low dose of elavil – he sees Ambien as a much safer drug. My psychiatrist still, with the addition of my back pain, has not mentioned Elavil or any of its buddies. He interviews me much closer with my back to see how my life is going with the pain. He sees how pain can be a monster in people’s lives unless treated properly. He is totally supportive of me taking Oxycontin and other meds for breakthrough. (He is an avid skier also, I really like the guy.) Martin
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I haven’t noticed any comments on the article in the Observer about > the use of Tricyclic Antidepressants in the alleviation of some forms > of chronic pain .
Response:
November 27, 2002
Question:
>5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW
Maybe this is what started his anxiety? Poor kitty 
Lauren =^..^= See my cats: http://www.picturetrail.com/mickey4paws/703043 To Error is Human, To be Purrfect is Feline
Response:
> >5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW > Maybe this is what started his anxiety? Poor kitty > Lauren
Yes, when I saw the list, I suddenly began to think about the declaw. My sister really adores these cats, and I don’t think she would have put them through the procedure if she had known of the problems it can cause. Years ago, I had plans to declaw one cat myself (long before I had done any reading on the subject). Fortunately, this cat was several months old when I adopted him, and he was a large cat; so the vet recommended against the declaw because he said the cat’s weight would cause more pain and a longer recuperation period than would have been true when he was a kitten. Later, I began to read about the dreadful effects and finally realized that this really is amputation. Furthermore, the cat trained easily to a scratching post. What a tragedy it would have been if I had subjected him to this procedure. I later adopted a wonderful little cat that had already been declawed (all four paws!!). She compensated in many ways, but her balance and agility never was the same as my cats who kept their claws; and I think that some of her litter box problems when she was elderly may have stemmed partly from no claws — that is, the pain of arthritis combined with no claws to protect her when she would try to scratch in the litter box. I don’t have any scientific evidence for this statement, but my observation leads me to believe that it is true.I bought the very softest litter for her that I could find, and that helped some. MaryL
Response:
> I have three cats and they all eat from the same bowl. They all eat dry food. I > suppose I could probably slip troublemaker some wet food with rescue remedy in > it, but I don’t know if he’d eat it, or if it would help. Are you particularly > convinced that rescue remedy works?
Nope. I’m not. I’ve tried it on several occasions and have seen absolutely no results from it. However, if you still want to give it a try, I’ve read that you can administer RR directly into the mouth (just a few drops), or rub some on the inside of the the ears, and I even had one person tell me she dilutes some in water, puts it into an atomizer, and mists it into to the air. She said it worked. >Gotcha. What about mixing it into his food? >Laura >– >>> I have one – he won’t touch it. He digs in the sink and howls if I turn off >the >> water. I’d rather leave the water on and have him drink all he wants than >try >> restricting his water access and have any kidney problems result from it.
CeCe — I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use. –Galileo Galilei
Response:
You may want to consult with an animal behaviorist (like Dr. Dodman) to determine what is the best course of treatment for your cat. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> While we’re talking about anti-anxiety medications, does anyone have a > suggestion for a cat that attacks when it realizes I’m leaving for work in the > morning? One vet suggested buspar, but the last thing this cat needs is more > confidence. He beats up on the other two as it is. I’ve tried Feliway and > Rescue Remedy. Feliway did nothing, and the Rescue Remedy is hard to administer > since he drinks water from a sink left running (so I can’t put it in his water > bowl) and putting the drops into his mouth is a huge battle. I gave up on that. > He’s been seen by four different vets and has had blood work done to rule out > any abnormalities.
Response:
> Amitriptyline is another anti-anxiety med and is not the same as prozac. > Prozac is also know as fluoxetine. As I said before, sometimes it takes > trial and error to find out what anti-anxiety med will work for your cat. > Sue
Thanks, Sue. I appreciate the information. I forwarded your other message (and also Gail’s) to my sister, and I’ll also send this on. I hope she can find a solution — she is desperate for one. MaryL
Response:
>the Rescue Remedy is hard to administer >since he drinks water from a sink left running (so I can’t put it in his >water >bowl) and putting the drops into his mouth is a huge battle. I gave up on >that.
Have you tried putting the Rescue Remedy on his fur and letting him lick it off? I know some people rub it into the outside of the cat’s ears and claim it can be absorbed that way, but I prefer putting on the fur and letting the cat lick it off. The thing about RR is that you need to give it consistently. You can’t just give it a few times and then stop. It will take a few weeks to see effects. Your cat may also need a more specific remedy. If you can figure out which one, you can buy them individually at most health food stores. You might want to check out these sites: http://www.catfaeries.com/ http://www.petsynergy.com/flower.html#C1 HTH, Lauren =^..^= See my cats: http://www.picturetrail.com/mickey4paws/703043 To Error is Human, To be Purrfect is Feline
Response:
I have a cat with whom I am just about at my wit’s end with in regards to his spraying. He also beats up on one of my hubby’s cats for no apparent reason. I have tried just about everything from A to Z including speaking with an animal behavorist. I’ve tried Feliway and Rescue Remedy – no luck. My cat seems to be immune to everything. I have asked the vet about drugs but she doesn’t want to go that route because of problems it may have health-wise. I guess there have been some kidney (or was it liver?) problems associated with either prozac or another kind but I can’t quite recall. If what you are saying is true, that Buspar has no long-term effects, than I will most definitely check into it. In fact I will call my vet tomorrow and get her opinion and write back. Thanks for the information and good luck to your sister. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
Amitriptyline is another anti-anxiety med and is not the same as prozac. Prozac is also know as fluoxetine. As I said before, sometimes it takes trial and error to find out what anti-anxiety med will work for your cat. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. > Thanks, > MaryL > Thanks for the information on Buspar. I have seen good information in > your responses to this NG and have also received personal e-mail. I > really do appreciate the help. > I checked with my sister, and Kelly is actually 5 years old (not 4). > She sent me this list of treatments that he has had: > DATE/TREATMENT > 4/26/1997First Vet visit > 4/26/1997FVRCP given elsewhere date? > 4/29/1997fecal exam > 5/12/1997fecal exam > 5/12/1997AMFOROL oral suspension > 5/15/1997AMFOROL oral suspension > 5/29/1997declaw anesthesia > 5/29/1997TELAZOL > 5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW > 5/29/1997FVRCP 2 OF 2 > 5/29/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA > 6/9/1997ANTIROBE AQUADROPS > 7/8/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA 2 OF 2 > 9/16/1997FLV BLOOD TEST > 9/16/1997CITE FELV PROB > 9/16/1997NEUTERED > 5/15/1998ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA > 2/5/1999URINALYSIS > 2/5/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS > 2/13/1999URINALYSIS > 2/15/1999UR FORMULA CAT FOOD BEGUN1/25/00 STOPPED > 2/27/1999URINALYSIS > 4/8/1999URINALYSIS > 4/9/1999ACEPROMAZINE 10 MG > 4/9/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS > 4/17/1999XRAY (LOOKING FOR BLOCKAGE??) > 4/17/1999CYSTOCENTESIS > 4/17/1999URINALYSIS > 4/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 > 5/8/1999URINALYSIS > 6/25/1999ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA > 6/25/1999AMITRIPTYLINE 10 MG IN USE UNTIL 4/00 > 12/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 > 1/17/2000ORBAX 22.7 MG GREEN > 2/11/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT > 2/14/2000ZENIQUIN 50 MG > 2/26/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT > Does this provide enough information for anyone to hazard an educated > guess as to why she has this continuing problem? Kelly was on > Amitriptyline (Prozac) from 6/99 to 4/00 when my sister gave up as it > was no longer effective. She went to a holistic vet who recommended an > herb but it didn’t have any effect. She can’t remember which herb was > recommnded (several years ago). > My sister is also interested in information about dosage for Buspar. I > sent her to the web site that Gail posted > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html), and that site said > to give 5 mg twice daily. However, her vet prescribed 5 mg daily in two > doses and that is all the prescription is for (total of 5mg daily, not > 10mg). Note: her vet also said that he is not familiar with this > medication. > Thanks for your help. > MaryL
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. > Thanks, > MaryL
Thanks for the information on Buspar. I have seen good information in your responses to this NG and have also received personal e-mail. I really do appreciate the help. I checked with my sister, and Kelly is actually 5 years old (not 4). She sent me this list of treatments that he has had: DATE/TREATMENT 4/26/1997First Vet visit 4/26/1997FVRCP given elsewhere date? 4/29/1997fecal exam 5/12/1997fecal exam 5/12/1997AMFOROL oral suspension 5/15/1997AMFOROL oral suspension 5/29/1997declaw anesthesia 5/29/1997TELAZOL 5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW 5/29/1997FVRCP 2 OF 2 5/29/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA 6/9/1997ANTIROBE AQUADROPS 7/8/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA 2 OF 2 9/16/1997FLV BLOOD TEST 9/16/1997CITE FELV PROB 9/16/1997NEUTERED 5/15/1998ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA 2/5/1999URINALYSIS 2/5/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS 2/13/1999URINALYSIS 2/15/1999UR FORMULA CAT FOOD BEGUN1/25/00 STOPPED 2/27/1999URINALYSIS 4/8/1999URINALYSIS 4/9/1999ACEPROMAZINE 10 MG 4/9/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS 4/17/1999XRAY (LOOKING FOR BLOCKAGE??) 4/17/1999CYSTOCENTESIS 4/17/1999URINALYSIS 4/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 5/8/1999URINALYSIS 6/25/1999ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA 6/25/1999AMITRIPTYLINE 10 MG IN USE UNTIL 4/00 12/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 1/17/2000ORBAX 22.7 MG GREEN 2/11/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT 2/14/2000ZENIQUIN 50 MG 2/26/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT Does this provide enough information for anyone to hazard an educated guess as to why she has this continuing problem? Kelly was on Amitriptyline (Prozac) from 6/99 to 4/00 when my sister gave up as it was no longer effective. She went to a holistic vet who recommended an herb but it didn’t have any effect. She can’t remember which herb was recommnded (several years ago). My sister is also interested in information about dosage for Buspar. I sent her to the web site that Gail posted (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html), and that site said to give 5 mg twice daily. However, her vet prescribed 5 mg daily in two doses and that is all the prescription is for (total of 5mg daily, not 10mg). Note: her vet also said that he is not familiar with this medication. Thanks for your help. MaryL
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While we’re talking about anti-anxiety medications, does anyone have a suggestion for a cat that attacks when it realizes I’m leaving for work in the morning? One vet suggested buspar, but the last thing this cat needs is more confidence. He beats up on the other two as it is. I’ve tried Feliway and Rescue Remedy. Feliway did nothing, and the Rescue Remedy is hard to administer since he drinks water from a sink left running (so I can’t put it in his water bowl) and putting the drops into his mouth is a huge battle. I gave up on that. He’s been seen by four different vets and has had blood work done to rule out any abnormalities.
Response:
I wanted to add that there are several different anti-anxiety meds available to help stop a cat from spraying. You have to try and determine why your cat is spraying and decide what med may help the most. Sometimes it takes trial and error to find out what works. Good luck. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Buspar can be helpful in stopping a cat’s spraying behavior. Buspar gives a > cat that is feeling anxious more confidence. Another medication that can be > used is prozac. I also have a spraying cat. I contacted Dr. Nicholas > Dodman (a reknown animal behaviorist from Tuft’s) to help with my cat’s > problem. Dr. Dodman prescribed prozac for my cat rather than buspirone > because my cat was very territorial and did not need anymore confidence. > The prozac, along with other behavior modifications, really helped get my > cat’s spraying under control. > Dr. Dodman offers programs called PETFAX and VETFAX where he and his > associates will provide assistance with an animal’s behavioral problem. > Your sister may want to check this out. Here’s some info on Dr. Dodman: > http://www.tufts.edu/vet/facpages/dodman_n.html I found it extremely > worthwhile. > Good luck to your sister. I hope she can get her cat’s behavior under > control. I know from experience how difficult this can be. > Sue > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
I have one – he won’t touch it. He digs in the sink and howls if I turn off the water. I’d rather leave the water on and have him drink all he wants than try restricting his water access and have any kidney problems result from it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Have you thought about getting a Drinkwell fountain and leaving the >filter out? Might work. >Laura
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>While we’re talking about anti-anxiety >medications, does anyone have a >suggestion for a cat that attacks when it >realizes I’m leaving for work in the >morning?
Could you please give a detailed description of what happens (before, during and after)? Also, a detailed description of what happens when he beats up on the other cats? There may be a solution to this that won’t require medication. Megan "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu’s Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22
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I have three cats and they all eat from the same bowl. They all eat dry food. I suppose I could probably slip troublemaker some wet food with rescue remedy in it, but I don’t know if he’d eat it, or if it would help. Are you particularly convinced that rescue remedy works? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Gotcha. What about mixing it into his food? >Laura >– >> I have one – he won’t touch it. He digs in the sink and howls if I turn off >the > water. I’d rather leave the water on and have him drink all he wants than >try > restricting his water access and have any kidney problems result from it.
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I’ve posted the whole saga before, and I’ve consulted 4 different vets about it. Everyone says they’ve never seen a cat react this way, only dogs. He has separation anxiety. When I get ready to leave in the morning I have to walk backwards towards the door talking calmly to my cat or else he’ll throw himself at my heels biting and clawing. Sometimes I literally run out the door. I can tell when he’s going to do it because he starts creeping up on me like he would an animal he’s stalking for prey, then he tilts his head sideways preparing to bite. If he does manage to bite he’ll continue to do it until I can get away from him. There have been times I’ve had to run into the bathroom and shut the door, and I’ve had wounds that probably should have had stitches. He’s an indoor kitty with plenty of things to do indoors. It’s not safe for him to go outside because of the wildlife in the area we live. The biting started when he was about 1 year old, when I started working fulltime. I always come home during lunch to visit him, so I don’t think he’s that lonely. When this behaviour started he was the only cat in the household. I got a second cat to try to keep him company, but that one is scared to death of him. I don’t blame her. She’s not social towards cats, so usually just leaves him alone or runs from him. A year ago I got a third cat, not by choice – someone gave me a 3 week old kitten that was found on the railroad tracks. I bottle-raised that one and introduced it to the aggressive male when he was 6 months old. They are great buddies and play very rough together. I thought maybe rough play would curb his need to be aggressive with me, but it didn’t. All the cats in the household are fixed. Like I said in another post, he’s had blood work done to rule out any chemical abnormalities. He also attacks if he’s yelled at for doing something bad, or if I use a squirt bottle on him. Sometimes he gets mad even when I disappear into the shower. He isn’t very clingy to me when I’m home, but does like to sleep on the bed with me. None of the vets I’ve taken him to have had any answers. They all say they’ve never seen a cat like this, and that he’s obviously a smart one. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Could you please give a detailed description of what happens (before, >during and after)? Also, a detailed description of what happens when he >beats up on the other cats? There may be a solution to this that won’t >require medication. >While we’re talking about anti-anxiety >medications, does anyone have a >suggestion for a cat that attacks when it >realizes I’m leaving for work in the >morning?
Response:
They all eat dry food. I don’t think I could mix it into dry food very easily without making a mess. I did try putting diluted rescue remedy in a spray bottle and misting it onto his bedding (suggested by someone in the newsgroups) but that didn’t seem to have any effect. Feeding wet food is not an option. One of the cats won’t eat any sort of wet food, and besides it makes the litterbox smell horribly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Nope, I just got the impression that you were saying it had worked >for you. I’ve not had occasion to use it. However, if it does work, I >would think that it wouldn’t harm the other cats, so mixing it into >the food might be a simple thing to try. >Laura > I have three cats and they all eat from the same bowl. They all eat dry >food. I > suppose I could probably slip troublemaker some wet food with rescue remedy >in > it, but I don’t know if he’d eat it, or if it would help. Are you >particularly > convince
Response:
I have a cat that also sprayed. He is neutered and has no medical problems. I tried Feliway and also an anti-depressant medication. Buspar was the one that helped him stop the spraying. It is definitely worth trying and can be used long term. Gail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
Buspar can be helpful in stopping a cat’s spraying behavior. Buspar gives a cat that is feeling anxious more confidence. Another medication that can be used is prozac. I also have a spraying cat. I contacted Dr. Nicholas Dodman (a reknown animal behaviorist from Tuft’s) to help with my cat’s problem. Dr. Dodman prescribed prozac for my cat rather than buspirone because my cat was very territorial and did not need anymore confidence. The prozac, along with other behavior modifications, really helped get my cat’s spraying under control. Dr. Dodman offers programs called PETFAX and VETFAX where he and his associates will provide assistance with an animal’s behavioral problem. Your sister may want to check this out. Here’s some info on Dr. Dodman: http://www.tufts.edu/vet/facpages/dodman_n.html I found it extremely worthwhile. Good luck to your sister. I hope she can get her cat’s behavior under control. I know from experience how difficult this can be. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a prescription. I also located this site (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral modification. My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway diffuser," as she suggested. I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost anything for them. Thanks, MaryL
Response:
>5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW
Maybe this is what started his anxiety? Poor kitty Lauren =^..^= See my cats: http://www.picturetrail.com/mickey4paws/703043 To Error is Human, To be Purrfect is Feline
Response:
> >5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW > Maybe this is what started his anxiety? Poor kitty > Lauren
Yes, when I saw the list, I suddenly began to think about the declaw. My sister really adores these cats, and I don’t think she would have put them through the procedure if she had known of the problems it can cause. Years ago, I had plans to declaw one cat myself (long before I had done any reading on the subject). Fortunately, this cat was several months old when I adopted him, and he was a large cat; so the vet recommended against the declaw because he said the cat’s weight would cause more pain and a longer recuperation period than would have been true when he was a kitten. Later, I began to read about the dreadful effects and finally realized that this really is amputation. Furthermore, the cat trained easily to a scratching post. What a tragedy it would have been if I had subjected him to this procedure. I later adopted a wonderful little cat that had already been declawed (all four paws!!). She compensated in many ways, but her balance and agility never was the same as my cats who kept their claws; and I think that some of her litter box problems when she was elderly may have stemmed partly from no claws — that is, the pain of arthritis combined with no claws to protect her when she would try to scratch in the litter box. I don’t have any scientific evidence for this statement, but my observation leads me to believe that it is true.I bought the very softest litter for her that I could find, and that helped some. MaryL
Response:
> I have three cats and they all eat from the same bowl. They all eat dry food. I > suppose I could probably slip troublemaker some wet food with rescue remedy in > it, but I don’t know if he’d eat it, or if it would help. Are you particularly > convinced that rescue remedy works?
Nope. I’m not. I’ve tried it on several occasions and have seen absolutely no results from it. However, if you still want to give it a try, I’ve read that you can administer RR directly into the mouth (just a few drops), or rub some on the inside of the the ears, and I even had one person tell me she dilutes some in water, puts it into an atomizer, and mists it into to the air. She said it worked. >Gotcha. What about mixing it into his food? >Laura >– >>> I have one – he won’t touch it. He digs in the sink and howls if I turn off >the >> water. I’d rather leave the water on and have him drink all he wants than >try >> restricting his water access and have any kidney problems result from it.
CeCe — I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use. –Galileo Galilei
Response:
You may want to consult with an animal behaviorist (like Dr. Dodman) to determine what is the best course of treatment for your cat. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> While we’re talking about anti-anxiety medications, does anyone have a > suggestion for a cat that attacks when it realizes I’m leaving for work in the > morning? One vet suggested buspar, but the last thing this cat needs is more > confidence. He beats up on the other two as it is. I’ve tried Feliway and > Rescue Remedy. Feliway did nothing, and the Rescue Remedy is hard to administer > since he drinks water from a sink left running (so I can’t put it in his water > bowl) and putting the drops into his mouth is a huge battle. I gave up on that. > He’s been seen by four different vets and has had blood work done to rule out > any abnormalities.
Response:
> Amitriptyline is another anti-anxiety med and is not the same as prozac. > Prozac is also know as fluoxetine. As I said before, sometimes it takes > trial and error to find out what anti-anxiety med will work for your cat. > Sue
Thanks, Sue. I appreciate the information. I forwarded your other message (and also Gail’s) to my sister, and I’ll also send this on. I hope she can find a solution — she is desperate for one. MaryL
Response:
>the Rescue Remedy is hard to administer >since he drinks water from a sink left running (so I can’t put it in his >water >bowl) and putting the drops into his mouth is a huge battle. I gave up on >that.
Have you tried putting the Rescue Remedy on his fur and letting him lick it off? I know some people rub it into the outside of the cat’s ears and claim it can be absorbed that way, but I prefer putting on the fur and letting the cat lick it off. The thing about RR is that you need to give it consistently. You can’t just give it a few times and then stop. It will take a few weeks to see effects. Your cat may also need a more specific remedy. If you can figure out which one, you can buy them individually at most health food stores. You might want to check out these sites: http://www.catfaeries.com/ http://www.petsynergy.com/flower.html#C1 HTH, Lauren =^..^= See my cats: http://www.picturetrail.com/mickey4paws/703043 To Error is Human, To be Purrfect is Feline
Response:
I have a cat with whom I am just about at my wit’s end with in regards to his spraying. He also beats up on one of my hubby’s cats for no apparent reason. I have tried just about everything from A to Z including speaking with an animal behavorist. I’ve tried Feliway and Rescue Remedy – no luck. My cat seems to be immune to everything. I have asked the vet about drugs but she doesn’t want to go that route because of problems it may have health-wise. I guess there have been some kidney (or was it liver?) problems associated with either prozac or another kind but I can’t quite recall. If what you are saying is true, that Buspar has no long-term effects, than I will most definitely check into it. In fact I will call my vet tomorrow and get her opinion and write back. Thanks for the information and good luck to your sister. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
Amitriptyline is another anti-anxiety med and is not the same as prozac. Prozac is also know as fluoxetine. As I said before, sometimes it takes trial and error to find out what anti-anxiety med will work for your cat. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. > Thanks, > MaryL > Thanks for the information on Buspar. I have seen good information in > your responses to this NG and have also received personal e-mail. I > really do appreciate the help. > I checked with my sister, and Kelly is actually 5 years old (not 4). > She sent me this list of treatments that he has had: > DATE/TREATMENT > 4/26/1997First Vet visit > 4/26/1997FVRCP given elsewhere date? > 4/29/1997fecal exam > 5/12/1997fecal exam > 5/12/1997AMFOROL oral suspension > 5/15/1997AMFOROL oral suspension > 5/29/1997declaw anesthesia > 5/29/1997TELAZOL > 5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW > 5/29/1997FVRCP 2 OF 2 > 5/29/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA > 6/9/1997ANTIROBE AQUADROPS > 7/8/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA 2 OF 2 > 9/16/1997FLV BLOOD TEST > 9/16/1997CITE FELV PROB > 9/16/1997NEUTERED > 5/15/1998ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA > 2/5/1999URINALYSIS > 2/5/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS > 2/13/1999URINALYSIS > 2/15/1999UR FORMULA CAT FOOD BEGUN1/25/00 STOPPED > 2/27/1999URINALYSIS > 4/8/1999URINALYSIS > 4/9/1999ACEPROMAZINE 10 MG > 4/9/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS > 4/17/1999XRAY (LOOKING FOR BLOCKAGE??) > 4/17/1999CYSTOCENTESIS > 4/17/1999URINALYSIS > 4/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 > 5/8/1999URINALYSIS > 6/25/1999ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA > 6/25/1999AMITRIPTYLINE 10 MG IN USE UNTIL 4/00 > 12/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 > 1/17/2000ORBAX 22.7 MG GREEN > 2/11/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT > 2/14/2000ZENIQUIN 50 MG > 2/26/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT > Does this provide enough information for anyone to hazard an educated > guess as to why she has this continuing problem? Kelly was on > Amitriptyline (Prozac) from 6/99 to 4/00 when my sister gave up as it > was no longer effective. She went to a holistic vet who recommended an > herb but it didn’t have any effect. She can’t remember which herb was > recommnded (several years ago). > My sister is also interested in information about dosage for Buspar. I > sent her to the web site that Gail posted > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html), and that site said > to give 5 mg twice daily. However, her vet prescribed 5 mg daily in two > doses and that is all the prescription is for (total of 5mg daily, not > 10mg). Note: her vet also said that he is not familiar with this > medication. > Thanks for your help. > MaryL
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. > Thanks, > MaryL
Thanks for the information on Buspar. I have seen good information in your responses to this NG and have also received personal e-mail. I really do appreciate the help. I checked with my sister, and Kelly is actually 5 years old (not 4). She sent me this list of treatments that he has had: DATE/TREATMENT 4/26/1997First Vet visit 4/26/1997FVRCP given elsewhere date? 4/29/1997fecal exam 5/12/1997fecal exam 5/12/1997AMFOROL oral suspension 5/15/1997AMFOROL oral suspension 5/29/1997declaw anesthesia 5/29/1997TELAZOL 5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW 5/29/1997FVRCP 2 OF 2 5/29/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA 6/9/1997ANTIROBE AQUADROPS 7/8/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA 2 OF 2 9/16/1997FLV BLOOD TEST 9/16/1997CITE FELV PROB 9/16/1997NEUTERED 5/15/1998ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA 2/5/1999URINALYSIS 2/5/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS 2/13/1999URINALYSIS 2/15/1999UR FORMULA CAT FOOD BEGUN1/25/00 STOPPED 2/27/1999URINALYSIS 4/8/1999URINALYSIS 4/9/1999ACEPROMAZINE 10 MG 4/9/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS 4/17/1999XRAY (LOOKING FOR BLOCKAGE??) 4/17/1999CYSTOCENTESIS 4/17/1999URINALYSIS 4/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 5/8/1999URINALYSIS 6/25/1999ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA 6/25/1999AMITRIPTYLINE 10 MG IN USE UNTIL 4/00 12/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 1/17/2000ORBAX 22.7 MG GREEN 2/11/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT 2/14/2000ZENIQUIN 50 MG 2/26/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT Does this provide enough information for anyone to hazard an educated guess as to why she has this continuing problem? Kelly was on Amitriptyline (Prozac) from 6/99 to 4/00 when my sister gave up as it was no longer effective. She went to a holistic vet who recommended an herb but it didn’t have any effect. She can’t remember which herb was recommnded (several years ago). My sister is also interested in information about dosage for Buspar. I sent her to the web site that Gail posted (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html), and that site said to give 5 mg twice daily. However, her vet prescribed 5 mg daily in two doses and that is all the prescription is for (total of 5mg daily, not 10mg). Note: her vet also said that he is not familiar with this medication. Thanks for your help. MaryL
Response:
While we’re talking about anti-anxiety medications, does anyone have a suggestion for a cat that attacks when it realizes I’m leaving for work in the morning? One vet suggested buspar, but the last thing this cat needs is more confidence. He beats up on the other two as it is. I’ve tried Feliway and Rescue Remedy. Feliway did nothing, and the Rescue Remedy is hard to administer since he drinks water from a sink left running (so I can’t put it in his water bowl) and putting the drops into his mouth is a huge battle. I gave up on that. He’s been seen by four different vets and has had blood work done to rule out any abnormalities.
Response:
I wanted to add that there are several different anti-anxiety meds available to help stop a cat from spraying. You have to try and determine why your cat is spraying and decide what med may help the most. Sometimes it takes trial and error to find out what works. Good luck. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Buspar can be helpful in stopping a cat’s spraying behavior. Buspar gives a > cat that is feeling anxious more confidence. Another medication that can be > used is prozac. I also have a spraying cat. I contacted Dr. Nicholas > Dodman (a reknown animal behaviorist from Tuft’s) to help with my cat’s > problem. Dr. Dodman prescribed prozac for my cat rather than buspirone > because my cat was very territorial and did not need anymore confidence. > The prozac, along with other behavior modifications, really helped get my > cat’s spraying under control. > Dr. Dodman offers programs called PETFAX and VETFAX where he and his > associates will provide assistance with an animal’s behavioral problem. > Your sister may want to check this out. Here’s some info on Dr. Dodman: > http://www.tufts.edu/vet/facpages/dodman_n.html I found it extremely > worthwhile. > Good luck to your sister. I hope she can get her cat’s behavior under > control. I know from experience how difficult this can be. > Sue > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
I have one – he won’t touch it. He digs in the sink and howls if I turn off the water. I’d rather leave the water on and have him drink all he wants than try restricting his water access and have any kidney problems result from it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Have you thought about getting a Drinkwell fountain and leaving the >filter out? Might work. >Laura
Response:
>While we’re talking about anti-anxiety >medications, does anyone have a >suggestion for a cat that attacks when it >realizes I’m leaving for work in the >morning?
Could you please give a detailed description of what happens (before, during and after)? Also, a detailed description of what happens when he beats up on the other cats? There may be a solution to this that won’t require medication. Megan "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu’s Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22
Response:
I have three cats and they all eat from the same bowl. They all eat dry food. I suppose I could probably slip troublemaker some wet food with rescue remedy in it, but I don’t know if he’d eat it, or if it would help. Are you particularly convinced that rescue remedy works? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Gotcha. What about mixing it into his food? >Laura >– >> I have one – he won’t touch it. He digs in the sink and howls if I turn off >the > water. I’d rather leave the water on and have him drink all he wants than >try > restricting his water access and have any kidney problems result from it.
Response:
I’ve posted the whole saga before, and I’ve consulted 4 different vets about it. Everyone says they’ve never seen a cat react this way, only dogs. He has separation anxiety. When I get ready to leave in the morning I have to walk backwards towards the door talking calmly to my cat or else he’ll throw himself at my heels biting and clawing. Sometimes I literally run out the door. I can tell when he’s going to do it because he starts creeping up on me like he would an animal he’s stalking for prey, then he tilts his head sideways preparing to bite. If he does manage to bite he’ll continue to do it until I can get away from him. There have been times I’ve had to run into the bathroom and shut the door, and I’ve had wounds that probably should have had stitches. He’s an indoor kitty with plenty of things to do indoors. It’s not safe for him to go outside because of the wildlife in the area we live. The biting started when he was about 1 year old, when I started working fulltime. I always come home during lunch to visit him, so I don’t think he’s that lonely. When this behaviour started he was the only cat in the household. I got a second cat to try to keep him company, but that one is scared to death of him. I don’t blame her. She’s not social towards cats, so usually just leaves him alone or runs from him. A year ago I got a third cat, not by choice – someone gave me a 3 week old kitten that was found on the railroad tracks. I bottle-raised that one and introduced it to the aggressive male when he was 6 months old. They are great buddies and play very rough together. I thought maybe rough play would curb his need to be aggressive with me, but it didn’t. All the cats in the household are fixed. Like I said in another post, he’s had blood work done to rule out any chemical abnormalities. He also attacks if he’s yelled at for doing something bad, or if I use a squirt bottle on him. Sometimes he gets mad even when I disappear into the shower. He isn’t very clingy to me when I’m home, but does like to sleep on the bed with me. None of the vets I’ve taken him to have had any answers. They all say they’ve never seen a cat like this, and that he’s obviously a smart one. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Could you please give a detailed description of what happens (before, >during and after)? Also, a detailed description of what happens when he >beats up on the other cats? There may be a solution to this that won’t >require medication. >While we’re talking about anti-anxiety >medications, does anyone have a >suggestion for a cat that attacks when it >realizes I’m leaving for work in the >morning?
Response:
They all eat dry food. I don’t think I could mix it into dry food very easily without making a mess. I did try putting diluted rescue remedy in a spray bottle and misting it onto his bedding (suggested by someone in the newsgroups) but that didn’t seem to have any effect. Feeding wet food is not an option. One of the cats won’t eat any sort of wet food, and besides it makes the litterbox smell horribly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Nope, I just got the impression that you were saying it had worked >for you. I’ve not had occasion to use it. However, if it does work, I >would think that it wouldn’t harm the other cats, so mixing it into >the food might be a simple thing to try. >Laura > I have three cats and they all eat from the same bowl. They all eat dry >food. I > suppose I could probably slip troublemaker some wet food with rescue remedy >in > it, but I don’t know if he’d eat it, or if it would help. Are you >particularly > convince
Response:
I have a cat that also sprayed. He is neutered and has no medical problems. I tried Feliway and also an anti-depressant medication. Buspar was the one that helped him stop the spraying. It is definitely worth trying and can be used long term. Gail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
Buspar can be helpful in stopping a cat’s spraying behavior. Buspar gives a cat that is feeling anxious more confidence. Another medication that can be used is prozac. I also have a spraying cat. I contacted Dr. Nicholas Dodman (a reknown animal behaviorist from Tuft’s) to help with my cat’s problem. Dr. Dodman prescribed prozac for my cat rather than buspirone because my cat was very territorial and did not need anymore confidence. The prozac, along with other behavior modifications, really helped get my cat’s spraying under control. Dr. Dodman offers programs called PETFAX and VETFAX where he and his associates will provide assistance with an animal’s behavioral problem. Your sister may want to check this out. Here’s some info on Dr. Dodman: http://www.tufts.edu/vet/facpages/dodman_n.html I found it extremely worthwhile. Good luck to your sister. I hope she can get her cat’s behavior under control. I know from experience how difficult this can be. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a prescription. I also located this site (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral modification. My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway diffuser," as she suggested. I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost anything for them. Thanks, MaryL
Response:
>5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW
Maybe this is what started his anxiety? Poor kitty Lauren =^..^= See my cats: http://www.picturetrail.com/mickey4paws/703043 To Error is Human, To be Purrfect is Feline
Response:
> >5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW > Maybe this is what started his anxiety? Poor kitty > Lauren
Yes, when I saw the list, I suddenly began to think about the declaw. My sister really adores these cats, and I don’t think she would have put them through the procedure if she had known of the problems it can cause. Years ago, I had plans to declaw one cat myself (long before I had done any reading on the subject). Fortunately, this cat was several months old when I adopted him, and he was a large cat; so the vet recommended against the declaw because he said the cat’s weight would cause more pain and a longer recuperation period than would have been true when he was a kitten. Later, I began to read about the dreadful effects and finally realized that this really is amputation. Furthermore, the cat trained easily to a scratching post. What a tragedy it would have been if I had subjected him to this procedure. I later adopted a wonderful little cat that had already been declawed (all four paws!!). She compensated in many ways, but her balance and agility never was the same as my cats who kept their claws; and I think that some of her litter box problems when she was elderly may have stemmed partly from no claws — that is, the pain of arthritis combined with no claws to protect her when she would try to scratch in the litter box. I don’t have any scientific evidence for this statement, but my observation leads me to believe that it is true.I bought the very softest litter for her that I could find, and that helped some. MaryL
Response:
> I have three cats and they all eat from the same bowl. They all eat dry food. I > suppose I could probably slip troublemaker some wet food with rescue remedy in > it, but I don’t know if he’d eat it, or if it would help. Are you particularly > convinced that rescue remedy works?
Nope. I’m not. I’ve tried it on several occasions and have seen absolutely no results from it. However, if you still want to give it a try, I’ve read that you can administer RR directly into the mouth (just a few drops), or rub some on the inside of the the ears, and I even had one person tell me she dilutes some in water, puts it into an atomizer, and mists it into to the air. She said it worked. >Gotcha. What about mixing it into his food? >Laura >– >>> I have one – he won’t touch it. He digs in the sink and howls if I turn off >the >> water. I’d rather leave the water on and have him drink all he wants than >try >> restricting his water access and have any kidney problems result from it.
CeCe — I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use. –Galileo Galilei
Response:
You may want to consult with an animal behaviorist (like Dr. Dodman) to determine what is the best course of treatment for your cat. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> While we’re talking about anti-anxiety medications, does anyone have a > suggestion for a cat that attacks when it realizes I’m leaving for work in the > morning? One vet suggested buspar, but the last thing this cat needs is more > confidence. He beats up on the other two as it is. I’ve tried Feliway and > Rescue Remedy. Feliway did nothing, and the Rescue Remedy is hard to administer > since he drinks water from a sink left running (so I can’t put it in his water > bowl) and putting the drops into his mouth is a huge battle. I gave up on that. > He’s been seen by four different vets and has had blood work done to rule out > any abnormalities.
Response:
> Amitriptyline is another anti-anxiety med and is not the same as prozac. > Prozac is also know as fluoxetine. As I said before, sometimes it takes > trial and error to find out what anti-anxiety med will work for your cat. > Sue
Thanks, Sue. I appreciate the information. I forwarded your other message (and also Gail’s) to my sister, and I’ll also send this on. I hope she can find a solution — she is desperate for one. MaryL
Response:
>the Rescue Remedy is hard to administer >since he drinks water from a sink left running (so I can’t put it in his >water >bowl) and putting the drops into his mouth is a huge battle. I gave up on >that.
Have you tried putting the Rescue Remedy on his fur and letting him lick it off? I know some people rub it into the outside of the cat’s ears and claim it can be absorbed that way, but I prefer putting on the fur and letting the cat lick it off. The thing about RR is that you need to give it consistently. You can’t just give it a few times and then stop. It will take a few weeks to see effects. Your cat may also need a more specific remedy. If you can figure out which one, you can buy them individually at most health food stores. You might want to check out these sites: http://www.catfaeries.com/ http://www.petsynergy.com/flower.html#C1 HTH, Lauren =^..^= See my cats: http://www.picturetrail.com/mickey4paws/703043 To Error is Human, To be Purrfect is Feline
Response:
I have a cat with whom I am just about at my wit’s end with in regards to his spraying. He also beats up on one of my hubby’s cats for no apparent reason. I have tried just about everything from A to Z including speaking with an animal behavorist. I’ve tried Feliway and Rescue Remedy – no luck. My cat seems to be immune to everything. I have asked the vet about drugs but she doesn’t want to go that route because of problems it may have health-wise. I guess there have been some kidney (or was it liver?) problems associated with either prozac or another kind but I can’t quite recall. If what you are saying is true, that Buspar has no long-term effects, than I will most definitely check into it. In fact I will call my vet tomorrow and get her opinion and write back. Thanks for the information and good luck to your sister. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
Amitriptyline is another anti-anxiety med and is not the same as prozac. Prozac is also know as fluoxetine. As I said before, sometimes it takes trial and error to find out what anti-anxiety med will work for your cat. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. > Thanks, > MaryL > Thanks for the information on Buspar. I have seen good information in > your responses to this NG and have also received personal e-mail. I > really do appreciate the help. > I checked with my sister, and Kelly is actually 5 years old (not 4). > She sent me this list of treatments that he has had: > DATE/TREATMENT > 4/26/1997First Vet visit > 4/26/1997FVRCP given elsewhere date? > 4/29/1997fecal exam > 5/12/1997fecal exam > 5/12/1997AMFOROL oral suspension > 5/15/1997AMFOROL oral suspension > 5/29/1997declaw anesthesia > 5/29/1997TELAZOL > 5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW > 5/29/1997FVRCP 2 OF 2 > 5/29/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA > 6/9/1997ANTIROBE AQUADROPS > 7/8/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA 2 OF 2 > 9/16/1997FLV BLOOD TEST > 9/16/1997CITE FELV PROB > 9/16/1997NEUTERED > 5/15/1998ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA > 2/5/1999URINALYSIS > 2/5/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS > 2/13/1999URINALYSIS > 2/15/1999UR FORMULA CAT FOOD BEGUN1/25/00 STOPPED > 2/27/1999URINALYSIS > 4/8/1999URINALYSIS > 4/9/1999ACEPROMAZINE 10 MG > 4/9/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS > 4/17/1999XRAY (LOOKING FOR BLOCKAGE??) > 4/17/1999CYSTOCENTESIS > 4/17/1999URINALYSIS > 4/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 > 5/8/1999URINALYSIS > 6/25/1999ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA > 6/25/1999AMITRIPTYLINE 10 MG IN USE UNTIL 4/00 > 12/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 > 1/17/2000ORBAX 22.7 MG GREEN > 2/11/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT > 2/14/2000ZENIQUIN 50 MG > 2/26/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT > Does this provide enough information for anyone to hazard an educated > guess as to why she has this continuing problem? Kelly was on > Amitriptyline (Prozac) from 6/99 to 4/00 when my sister gave up as it > was no longer effective. She went to a holistic vet who recommended an > herb but it didn’t have any effect. She can’t remember which herb was > recommnded (several years ago). > My sister is also interested in information about dosage for Buspar. I > sent her to the web site that Gail posted > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html), and that site said > to give 5 mg twice daily. However, her vet prescribed 5 mg daily in two > doses and that is all the prescription is for (total of 5mg daily, not > 10mg). Note: her vet also said that he is not familiar with this > medication. > Thanks for your help. > MaryL
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. > Thanks, > MaryL
Thanks for the information on Buspar. I have seen good information in your responses to this NG and have also received personal e-mail. I really do appreciate the help. I checked with my sister, and Kelly is actually 5 years old (not 4). She sent me this list of treatments that he has had: DATE/TREATMENT 4/26/1997First Vet visit 4/26/1997FVRCP given elsewhere date? 4/29/1997fecal exam 5/12/1997fecal exam 5/12/1997AMFOROL oral suspension 5/15/1997AMFOROL oral suspension 5/29/1997declaw anesthesia 5/29/1997TELAZOL 5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW 5/29/1997FVRCP 2 OF 2 5/29/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA 6/9/1997ANTIROBE AQUADROPS 7/8/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA 2 OF 2 9/16/1997FLV BLOOD TEST 9/16/1997CITE FELV PROB 9/16/1997NEUTERED 5/15/1998ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA 2/5/1999URINALYSIS 2/5/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS 2/13/1999URINALYSIS 2/15/1999UR FORMULA CAT FOOD BEGUN1/25/00 STOPPED 2/27/1999URINALYSIS 4/8/1999URINALYSIS 4/9/1999ACEPROMAZINE 10 MG 4/9/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS 4/17/1999XRAY (LOOKING FOR BLOCKAGE??) 4/17/1999CYSTOCENTESIS 4/17/1999URINALYSIS 4/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 5/8/1999URINALYSIS 6/25/1999ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA 6/25/1999AMITRIPTYLINE 10 MG IN USE UNTIL 4/00 12/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 1/17/2000ORBAX 22.7 MG GREEN 2/11/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT 2/14/2000ZENIQUIN 50 MG 2/26/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT Does this provide enough information for anyone to hazard an educated guess as to why she has this continuing problem? Kelly was on Amitriptyline (Prozac) from 6/99 to 4/00 when my sister gave up as it was no longer effective. She went to a holistic vet who recommended an herb but it didn’t have any effect. She can’t remember which herb was recommnded (several years ago). My sister is also interested in information about dosage for Buspar. I sent her to the web site that Gail posted (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html), and that site said to give 5 mg twice daily. However, her vet prescribed 5 mg daily in two doses and that is all the prescription is for (total of 5mg daily, not 10mg). Note: her vet also said that he is not familiar with this medication. Thanks for your help. MaryL
Response:
While we’re talking about anti-anxiety medications, does anyone have a suggestion for a cat that attacks when it realizes I’m leaving for work in the morning? One vet suggested buspar, but the last thing this cat needs is more confidence. He beats up on the other two as it is. I’ve tried Feliway and Rescue Remedy. Feliway did nothing, and the Rescue Remedy is hard to administer since he drinks water from a sink left running (so I can’t put it in his water bowl) and putting the drops into his mouth is a huge battle. I gave up on that. He’s been seen by four different vets and has had blood work done to rule out any abnormalities.
Response:
I wanted to add that there are several different anti-anxiety meds available to help stop a cat from spraying. You have to try and determine why your cat is spraying and decide what med may help the most. Sometimes it takes trial and error to find out what works. Good luck. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Buspar can be helpful in stopping a cat’s spraying behavior. Buspar gives a > cat that is feeling anxious more confidence. Another medication that can be > used is prozac. I also have a spraying cat. I contacted Dr. Nicholas > Dodman (a reknown animal behaviorist from Tuft’s) to help with my cat’s > problem. Dr. Dodman prescribed prozac for my cat rather than buspirone > because my cat was very territorial and did not need anymore confidence. > The prozac, along with other behavior modifications, really helped get my > cat’s spraying under control. > Dr. Dodman offers programs called PETFAX and VETFAX where he and his > associates will provide assistance with an animal’s behavioral problem. > Your sister may want to check this out. Here’s some info on Dr. Dodman: > http://www.tufts.edu/vet/facpages/dodman_n.html I found it extremely > worthwhile. > Good luck to your sister. I hope she can get her cat’s behavior under > control. I know from experience how difficult this can be. > Sue > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
I have one – he won’t touch it. He digs in the sink and howls if I turn off the water. I’d rather leave the water on and have him drink all he wants than try restricting his water access and have any kidney problems result from it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Have you thought about getting a Drinkwell fountain and leaving the >filter out? Might work. >Laura
Response:
>While we’re talking about anti-anxiety >medications, does anyone have a >suggestion for a cat that attacks when it >realizes I’m leaving for work in the >morning?
Could you please give a detailed description of what happens (before, during and after)? Also, a detailed description of what happens when he beats up on the other cats? There may be a solution to this that won’t require medication. Megan "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu’s Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22
Response:
I have three cats and they all eat from the same bowl. They all eat dry food. I suppose I could probably slip troublemaker some wet food with rescue remedy in it, but I don’t know if he’d eat it, or if it would help. Are you particularly convinced that rescue remedy works? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Gotcha. What about mixing it into his food? >Laura >– >> I have one – he won’t touch it. He digs in the sink and howls if I turn off >the > water. I’d rather leave the water on and have him drink all he wants than >try > restricting his water access and have any kidney problems result from it.
Response:
I’ve posted the whole saga before, and I’ve consulted 4 different vets about it. Everyone says they’ve never seen a cat react this way, only dogs. He has separation anxiety. When I get ready to leave in the morning I have to walk backwards towards the door talking calmly to my cat or else he’ll throw himself at my heels biting and clawing. Sometimes I literally run out the door. I can tell when he’s going to do it because he starts creeping up on me like he would an animal he’s stalking for prey, then he tilts his head sideways preparing to bite. If he does manage to bite he’ll continue to do it until I can get away from him. There have been times I’ve had to run into the bathroom and shut the door, and I’ve had wounds that probably should have had stitches. He’s an indoor kitty with plenty of things to do indoors. It’s not safe for him to go outside because of the wildlife in the area we live. The biting started when he was about 1 year old, when I started working fulltime. I always come home during lunch to visit him, so I don’t think he’s that lonely. When this behaviour started he was the only cat in the household. I got a second cat to try to keep him company, but that one is scared to death of him. I don’t blame her. She’s not social towards cats, so usually just leaves him alone or runs from him. A year ago I got a third cat, not by choice – someone gave me a 3 week old kitten that was found on the railroad tracks. I bottle-raised that one and introduced it to the aggressive male when he was 6 months old. They are great buddies and play very rough together. I thought maybe rough play would curb his need to be aggressive with me, but it didn’t. All the cats in the household are fixed. Like I said in another post, he’s had blood work done to rule out any chemical abnormalities. He also attacks if he’s yelled at for doing something bad, or if I use a squirt bottle on him. Sometimes he gets mad even when I disappear into the shower. He isn’t very clingy to me when I’m home, but does like to sleep on the bed with me. None of the vets I’ve taken him to have had any answers. They all say they’ve never seen a cat like this, and that he’s obviously a smart one. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Could you please give a detailed description of what happens (before, >during and after)? Also, a detailed description of what happens when he >beats up on the other cats? There may be a solution to this that won’t >require medication. >While we’re talking about anti-anxiety >medications, does anyone have a >suggestion for a cat that attacks when it >realizes I’m leaving for work in the >morning?
Response:
They all eat dry food. I don’t think I could mix it into dry food very easily without making a mess. I did try putting diluted rescue remedy in a spray bottle and misting it onto his bedding (suggested by someone in the newsgroups) but that didn’t seem to have any effect. Feeding wet food is not an option. One of the cats won’t eat any sort of wet food, and besides it makes the litterbox smell horribly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Nope, I just got the impression that you were saying it had worked >for you. I’ve not had occasion to use it. However, if it does work, I >would think that it wouldn’t harm the other cats, so mixing it into >the food might be a simple thing to try. >Laura > I have three cats and they all eat from the same bowl. They all eat dry >food. I > suppose I could probably slip troublemaker some wet food with rescue remedy >in > it, but I don’t know if he’d eat it, or if it would help. Are you >particularly > convince
Response:
I have a cat that also sprayed. He is neutered and has no medical problems. I tried Feliway and also an anti-depressant medication. Buspar was the one that helped him stop the spraying. It is definitely worth trying and can be used long term. Gail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
Buspar can be helpful in stopping a cat’s spraying behavior. Buspar gives a cat that is feeling anxious more confidence. Another medication that can be used is prozac. I also have a spraying cat. I contacted Dr. Nicholas Dodman (a reknown animal behaviorist from Tuft’s) to help with my cat’s problem. Dr. Dodman prescribed prozac for my cat rather than buspirone because my cat was very territorial and did not need anymore confidence. The prozac, along with other behavior modifications, really helped get my cat’s spraying under control. Dr. Dodman offers programs called PETFAX and VETFAX where he and his associates will provide assistance with an animal’s behavioral problem. Your sister may want to check this out. Here’s some info on Dr. Dodman: http://www.tufts.edu/vet/facpages/dodman_n.html I found it extremely worthwhile. Good luck to your sister. I hope she can get her cat’s behavior under control. I know from experience how difficult this can be. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a prescription. I also located this site (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral modification. My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway diffuser," as she suggested. I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost anything for them. Thanks, MaryL
Response:
October 7, 2002
Question:
On a lighter note, if Freud had operated on the woman’s fingers instead he might have had a better result in stopping her from masturbating 
hohohoho…(just in case, that was meant as a joke and not to be taken seriously – before I get battered by a deluge of ‘immoral surgery’ flames!) FF — "Life in the fast lane Surely make you lose your mind Life in the fast lane, everything all the time" – The Eagles
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> >religious practitioners but not as medical practitioners. They should >be forced to admit to themselves and to the world that they reject >science and objective standards, and they should never be allowed to >sell the drugs they prescribe [9].
I disagree with this position paper (posted by Hopper). Just a couple points spring to my mind to contest the idea that the allopathic medicine dominant in this country only since the 1940s is more "scientific" and incomparably superior to the so-called "new age"medicine that is performed here and in the rest of the world. Consider first the "placebo effect". This and the "double blind" test format are the philosophical bedrock of current western medicine. How many medicines are approved each year by the FDA for which the net observed therapeutic benefits (minus placebo) are are less than that of the placebo effect itself? Most, I would guess. But what is known WITHIN our allopathic system about this mysterious and all-powerful placebo effect — the defacto baseline for allopathic, ahem, cures? Could we say zero? Well, that cant be the case. Every FDA-sanctioned study "proves" something about the "placebo" and the various diseases it "effects". But again, what do we choose to study? My point is to question that superior "science" is at work here. Other healing modalities DO have integrated theories that address the roles of belief, energy and homeostasis (internal healing mechanisms). Why doesn’t allopathy? Personally, I am a proponent of meditation, the practice of change through careful attention to subtle mental, emotional and physical processes. Allopathy is not necessarily a "superior" science. It is merely a "science" and one that has been blinded to its own roots. To prove my point about science, I "tested" my theory by doing a quick search for "placebo effect" to see what currently is "known" within the field. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42930-2002May6.html Against Depression, a Sugar Pill Is Hard to Beat Placebos Improve Mood, Change Brain Chemistry in Majority of Trials of Antidepressants By Shankar Vedantam Washington Post Staff Writer Tuesday, May 7, 2002; Page A01 After thousands of studies, hundreds of millions of prescriptions and tens of billions of dollars in sales, two things are certain about pills that treat depression: Antidepressants like Prozac, Paxil and Zoloft work. And so do sugar pills. A new analysis has found that in the majority of trials conducted by drug companies in recent decades, sugar pills have done as well as — or better than — antidepressants. Companies have had to conduct numerous trials to get two that show a positive result, which is the Food and Drug Administration’s minimum for approval. What’s more, the sugar pills, or placebos, cause profound changes in the same areas of the brain affected by the medicines, according to research published last week. …. The article continues (see link) what was interesting to me was the discussion offered by various md’s regarding these on-going findings: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&th=d9b8db605e1acb7… Objectively Yours, Josh
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> Consider first the "placebo effect". This and the "double blind" test > format are the philosophical bedrock of current western medicine. How > many medicines are approved each year by the FDA for which the net > observed therapeutic benefits (minus placebo) are are less than that > of the placebo effect itself? Most, I would guess.
By that, I presume, you believe the sugar pill to be an absence of treatment? > Personally, I am a proponent of meditation, the practice of change > through careful attention to subtle mental, emotional and physical > processes.
A very useful process. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Allopathy is not necessarily a "superior" science. It is merely a > "science" and one that has been blinded to its own roots. > To prove my point about science, I "tested" my theory by doing a quick > search for "placebo effect" to see what currently is "known" within > the field. > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42930-2002May6.html > Against Depression, a Sugar Pill Is Hard to Beat > Placebos Improve Mood, Change Brain Chemistry > in Majority of Trials of Antidepressants > By Shankar Vedantam > Washington Post Staff Writer > Tuesday, May 7, 2002; Page A01 > After thousands of studies, hundreds of millions of prescriptions > and tens of billions of dollars in sales, two things are certain > about pills that treat depression: Antidepressants like Prozac, > Paxil and Zoloft work. And so do sugar pills. > A new analysis has found that in the majority of trials conducted by > drug companies in recent decades, sugar pills have done as well as > — or better than — antidepressants. Companies have had to conduct > numerous trials to get two that show a positive result, which is the > Food and Drug Administration’s minimum for approval.
This statement is taken so out of context, it no longer has any validity. Placebo groups in clinical trials are not untreated. This is a common misconception among both medical practitioners and laypeople, alike. If you’ve ever taken part in a clinical study (I have), you know this already. Seattle psychiatrist Arif Khan found that in 52% of the trials, the effect of the drug could not be distinguished from the placebo. http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/research/story/0,9865,740721,0… Here’s what the author, indirectly referred to by the Post, said: From http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p000429.html, written by Khan himself: "Altogether, 8,731 depressed patients participated in 45 pivotal clinical trials. Of these, 4,510 were assigned to the investigational antidepressants, 1,416 to established antidepressants (imipramine [Tofranil], amitriptyline [Elavil, Endep] or trazodone [Desyrel]) and 2,805 to placebo. Statistical analysis indicated that all of the antidepressants were significantly superior to placebo in decreasing the HAM-D score total. Of note was the positive relationship between duration of clinical trial and reduction of symptoms: the longer the duration of the clinical trial, the greater the decrease in depressive symptoms, regardless of treatment. Among the placebo-treated patients, the reduction in mean total HAM-D scores was 24.7% in four-week trials, 31.5% in five-week trials, 30.5% in six-week trials and 36.1% in eight-week trials. Correspondingly, the reduction with traditional antidepressants was 28.2% in four-week trials, 44% in six-week trials and 48.1% in eight-week trials. The reduction with investigational antidepressants was 40% in four-week trials, 40.5% in five-week trials, 40.6% in six-week trials and 43.9% in eight-week trials (Khan et al., in press). " **Note this next paragraph, please. Placebo subjects are not untreated.** "The less-than-impressive results in these and other studies also calls to mind the fact that patients assigned to placebo treatment in clinical trials are not "getting nothing." The capsule they receive is pharmacologically inert but hardly inert with respect to its symbolic value and its power as a conditioned stimulus. In addition, placebo-treated patients receive all of the commonly employed treatment techniques: a thorough evaluation; an explanation for their distress; an expert healer; a plausible treatment; expectation of improvement; a healer’s commitment, enthusiasm and positive regard; and an opportunity to verbalize their distress. " He goes on to include a very important warning about the interpretation of his findings: "A cautionary note is indicated about the generalization of these data to the clinical management of depressed patients. The less-than-impressive difference between drug and placebo in this and other studies of clinical trials does not speak directly to the effectiveness of antidepressants in clinical practice. Participants in antidepressant clinical trials are a highly select group and are not representative of the general population of depressed patients. They are not actively suicidal, they are almost always outpatients who are moderately rather than severely or mildly depressed, and they are free of comorbid physical or psychiatric illness. They are likely to have a higher placebo response rate than more severely ill depressed patients. " "Furthermore, the primary aim of these studies is not to assess the optimal effect of antidepressants, but rather to rapidly assess efficacy of new drugs so they can be brought to the market. Therefore, dose, duration and diagnosis in clinical trials are not necessarily ideally suited to identify the optimal effects of antidepressants. Accordingly, clinical trials may identify the lower bound of the effect size compared to placebo. "
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’m talking mood altering drugs that shrinks prescribe. > Drugs that can >only be tested subjectively by listening to subjective > reports of >patients. > There have been many successful attempts to quantify the > mental state of patients. There are scores for depression, > psychosis, and more. I once took the MMPI which was good > enough for the government to conclude I needed help. >All shrink drugs are suspect because not one single > chemical >imbalance has ever been identified. > What a load of crap. SSRI’s are specifically targeted > towards seretonin imbalances,
They are targetted toward presynaptic serotonin receptors–blocking uptake. It’s not an issue of an "imbalance" of anything. The individual could have exactly as much HT5 that they are supposed to but for some reason the post synaptic receptors are not working as efficiently as they used to. — No medicine is more valuable, none more efficacious, none better suited to the cure of all our temporal ills than a friend to whom we may turn for consolation in time of trouble, and with whom we may share our happiness in time of joy. Saint Ailred of Rivaulx (1109 – 1166) Historian and abbot http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm
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HUH?
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> I’m talking mood altering drugs that shrinks prescribe. Drugs that can > only be tested subjectively by listening to subjective reports of > patients.
you don’t get out much do you. The diagnostic process involves more than the subjective report of the patient. — No medicine is more valuable, none more efficacious, none better suited to the cure of all our temporal ills than a friend to whom we may turn for consolation in time of trouble, and with whom we may share our happiness in time of joy. Saint Ailred of Rivaulx (1109 – 1166) Historian and abbot http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm
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> I’m talking mood altering drugs that shrinks prescribe. Drugs that can > only be tested subjectively by listening to subjective reports of > patients.
There have been many successful attempts to quantify the mental state of patients. There are scores for depression, psychosis, and more. I once took the MMPI which was good enough for the government to conclude I needed help. > All shrink drugs are suspect because not one single chemical > imbalance has ever been identified.
What a load of crap. SSRI’s are specifically targeted towards seretonin imbalances, and novel antipsychotics tend to focus around dopamine. These are only two examples of identified chemical imbalances. > Drug companies do manage to beat > sugar pills but after numerous tries and by fixing the studies. There > is no double-blinding because patients recognize the taste and > side-effects of meds. Most important, shrink drugs do not make common > sense. How can you bathe a complex organ like the brain in one > chemical and hope to rewire the brain to improve complex
behaviour. Drugs alone can’t do it you’re probably right, but they are needed in some cases. > It > has always been easy to sedate or elevate the mood of the brain. The > problem is that this kind of thing boomerangs back. The fact is that > psychiatry is still in the primitive age and they should not be giving > out these chemicals when there is no clear evidence that they help > anyone more than sugar pills do.
There is plenty of evidence, but you are too blind to see it. > The people that are protesting about these drugs have experienced them > and know they don’t work. History shows that the majority of people > will fall for a placebo no matter how ludicrous it is. Only a few > cynics ever protest. I think you should be listening to
these cynics. I was a cynic once myself, but that was before I relented and took medications. Medications are not placebos and without them I would probably be either dead, from suicide, or homeless. Before I was on my medications, I only earned a 3.0 GPA and later dropped out. After I was on them, I earned a 3.93 GPA and actually graduated. I think that’s a pretty significant result, at least in my eyes. No I wouldn’t qualify it totally as proof, but nothing would be proof to you, not even scientific studies, because you have become blinded by your cynicism. Did you ever think that perhaps some people are beyond what little help these drugs can provide? And you can always blame incompitent doctors if you like. However, I still assert that there are plenty of good medications out there, and that they are not placebos, and claiming they are the equivalent of sugar pills is stupid logic in my opinion. Just ask some of the other people in this newsgroup.
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> Nothing has changed in Psychiatry since Freud. They are no closer to > understanding the brain. They still have not identified a single > chemical imbalance. They are doing the equivalent of pouring dangerous > chemicals on the brain to see what happens. The studies are conducted > by the drug companies and the drugs often still don’t beat a sugar > pill. The companies can conduct study after study on a drug until they > get the result they need to satisfy FDA.
I agree that the approval process is screwed up, but the FDA does a pretty good job with the regulations that it uses. The drug companies are only in it for profit, and have often steamrollered consumers for that very goal. Yet, at the same time, some very good drugs have come out as a result of the system. Trying to place all drugs in the same category doesn’t do them justice. Without a doctor, most medications, whether they are for mental health or regular health, can be dangerous. Trying to single out brain chemical medications and saying they should be banned is like saying all people of a certain race should be eliminated because some of them give a bad example. It’s ironic that some of the people who have flooded this group being against medications have obviously needed to be on them themselves.
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I guess freud must have been about 120 years ahead of his time, you must then admit he was a genius. I think his therapy worked and the woman no longer was self erotic. Go Sigmund.!
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I understand Freud was completely wrong as his subjects were exclusively wealthy, white, young women with too much time and not enough to do. — "All people are unique, only some people are a lot more unique than the rest" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I guess freud must have been about 120 years ahead of his time, you must > then admit he was a genius. I think his therapy worked and the woman no > longer was self erotic. Go Sigmund.!
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> Bullshit.. nothing has been proved.. psychiatry still has no idea what role dapamine plays > in psychosis..
When are you going to learn that "proved" and "have no idea" are not synonymous? — No medicine is more valuable, none more efficacious, none better suited to the cure of all our temporal ills than a friend to whom we may turn for consolation in time of trouble, and with whom we may share our happiness in time of joy. Saint Ailred of Rivaulx (1109 – 1166) Historian and abbot http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm
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says… > When are you going to learn that "proved" and "have no idea" are not > synonymous?
He said ’nothing had been proved’ – not ‘proved’. When are you going to learn how to read?
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> says… >When are you going to learn that "proved" and "have no idea" are not >synonymous? > He said ’nothing had been proved’ – not ‘proved’.
Read it again. s/he/it is putting "proof" at the same level as "hypothesis." "nothing has been proved.. psychiatry still has no idea what role dapamine plays " There are lots of ideas of how neurotransmitters affect brain functioning and most of those ideas have supporting evidence (and note the difference between "support" and "prove." > When are you going to learn how to read?
– No medicine is more valuable, none more efficacious, none better suited to the cure of all our temporal ills than a friend to whom we may turn for consolation in time of trouble, and with whom we may share our happiness in time of joy. Saint Ailred of Rivaulx (1109 – 1166) Historian and abbot http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm
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all just hypothsis.. still stalking Irene Mark? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> says… >>When are you going to learn that "proved" and "have no idea" are not >>synonymous? > He said ’nothing had been proved’ – not ‘proved’. >Read it again. >s/he/it is putting "proof" at the same level as "hypothesis." >"nothing has been proved.. psychiatry still has no idea what role >dapamine plays " >There are lots of ideas of how neurotransmitters affect brain >functioning and most of those ideas have supporting evidence (and note >the difference between "support" and "prove." > When are you going to learn how to read?
– C/S/X Consumer/Survivor/Ex-Patient; a progressive term, in that one begins with the illusion of being a "consumer," is subjected to one or more of the horrors of psychiatric/therapeutic abuse and becomes a "survivor" (if he’s lucky), and quickly realizes that the best way in which to extend his survival and avoid a repetition of the nightmare is to remain permanently an "EX-Patient."
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> all just hypothsis..
who ever said they were anything but? > still stalking Irene Mark?
Did it ever occur to you that there was more than one Mark in the Universe? Not that the other Mark did any stalking. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>says… >>>When are you going to learn that "proved" and "have no idea" are not >>>synonymous? >>He said ’nothing had been proved’ – not ‘proved’. >Read it again. >s/he/it is putting "proof" at the same level as "hypothesis." >"nothing has been proved.. psychiatry still has no idea what role >dapamine plays " >There are lots of ideas of how neurotransmitters affect brain >functioning and most of those ideas have supporting evidence (and note >the difference between "support" and "prove." >>When are you going to learn how to read? > — > C/S/X > Consumer/Survivor/Ex-Patient; a progressive term, in that one begins with the illusion of > being a "consumer," is subjected to one or more of the horrors of psychiatric/therapeutic > abuse and becomes a "survivor" (if he’s lucky), and quickly realizes that the best way in > which to extend his survival and avoid a repetition of the nightmare is to remain > permanently an "EX-Patient."
– No medicine is more valuable, none more efficacious, none better suited to the cure of all our temporal ills than a friend to whom we may turn for consolation in time of trouble, and with whom we may share our happiness in time of joy. Saint Ailred of Rivaulx (1109 – 1166) Historian and abbot http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Nothing has changed in Psychiatry since Freud. They are no > closer to > understanding the brain. They still have not identified a > single > chemical imbalance. They are doing the equivalent of > pouring dangerous > chemicals on the brain to see what happens. The studies > are conducted > by the drug companies and the drugs often still don’t beat > a sugar > pill. The companies can conduct study after study on a > drug until they > get the result they need to satisfy FDA. > I agree that the approval process is screwed up, but the FDA > does a pretty good job with the regulations that it uses. > The drug companies are only in it for profit, and have often > steamrollered consumers for that very goal. Yet, at the > same time, some very good drugs have come out as a result of > the system. Trying to place all drugs in the same category > doesn’t do them justice. > Without a doctor, most medications, whether they are for > mental health or regular health, can be dangerous. Trying > to single out brain chemical medications and saying they > should be banned is like saying all people of a certain race > should be eliminated because some of them give a bad > example. > It’s ironic that some of the people who have flooded this > group being against medications have obviously needed to be > on them themselves.
I’m talking mood altering drugs that shrinks prescribe. Drugs that can only be tested subjectively by listening to subjective reports of patients. All shrink drugs are suspect because not one single chemical imbalance has ever been identified. Drug companies do manage to beat sugar pills but after numerous tries and by fixing the studies. There is no double-blinding because patients recognize the taste and side-effects of meds. Most important, shrink drugs do not make common sense. How can you bathe a complex organ like the brain in one chemical and hope to rewire the brain to improve complex behaviour. It has always been easy to sedate or elevate the mood of the brain. The problem is that this kind of thing boomerangs back. The fact is that psychiatry is still in the primitive age and they should not be giving out these chemicals when there is no clear evidence that they help anyone more than sugar pills do. The people that are protesting about these drugs have experienced them and know they don’t work. History shows that the majority of people will fall for a placebo no matter how ludicrous it is. Only a few cynics ever protest. I think you should be listening to these cynics.
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Bullshit.. nothing has been proved.. psychiatry still has no idea what role dapamine plays in psychosis.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Nothing has changed in Psychiatry since Freud. They are no closer to > understanding the brain. >really? tell that to all the neurosugeans who are removing tumors with >precision > They still have not identified a single chemical imbalance. >but what they have done is identified specific neurotransmitters and >identified how those neurotransmitters affect out functioning. We have >done functional imaging studies that have demonstrated that people with >disorder X have underactivation or overactivation of particular parts of >the brain–parts that are known to respond to particular neurotransmitters. >just because you don’t want to believe it, doesnt’ make it false.
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XXY is a real thing that can be tested for. Been out of jail long? Most of you end up in jail.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I must be in "disagree mode". >I can tell you "banhappinesspills" that the XXY brain has been studied and >structural differnces have be en noted in it, and I have an XXY brain. I >don’t particularly give a damn if the exact cause and reason for treatment >succeeding is 100% known or 0% known, so long as I can do what I want to do >without causing harm to anyone else, I’m happy. I’m sure I won’t be happy >and I know I was never happy, without my personality altering medication. >See I don’t care about why it works only that it works. If it didn’t work, >as marijuana doen’t work and alcohol doesn’t work I wouldn’t take it, as I >don’t marijuana and alcohol. Of couirse to know those don’t work I had to >give them a decent trail. :-) I can be very content on ‘happy – baccy’ and >’fire water’, but neither solves my shitty temper, piss poor outlook on life >and flambouyant over the top personality, in fact they actually make these >worse as I constantly needed to increase my dosage to get the required >effect. On alcohol ist’s very easy to be ‘over the limit’ on a very small >volume. I have been taking the ‘happypills" for over two years without >needing to alter the dosage at all.
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Nothing has changed in Psychiatry since Freud. They are no closer to understanding the brain. They still have not identified a single chemical imbalance. They are doing the equivalent of pouring dangerous chemicals on the brain to see what happens. The studies are conducted by the drug companies and the drugs often still don’t beat a sugar pill. The companies can conduct study after study on a drug until they get the result they need to satisfy FDA. Btw, the woman almost died of infection since he did not clean the instruments.
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He was high on cocaine and opium at the time.
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> Nothing has changed in Psychiatry since Freud. They are no closer to > understanding the brain.
really? tell that to all the neurosugeans who are removing tumors with precision > They still have not identified a single chemical imbalance.
but what they have done is identified specific neurotransmitters and identified how those neurotransmitters affect out functioning. We have done functional imaging studies that have demonstrated that people with disorder X have underactivation or overactivation of particular parts of the brain–parts that are known to respond to particular neurotransmitters. just because you don’t want to believe it, doesnt’ make it false. — No medicine is more valuable, none more efficacious, none better suited to the cure of all our temporal ills than a friend to whom we may turn for consolation in time of trouble, and with whom we may share our happiness in time of joy. Saint Ailred of Rivaulx (1109 – 1166) Historian and abbot http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm
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> done functional imaging studies that have demonstrated that people with > disorder X have underactivation or overactivation of particular parts of > the brain–parts that are known to respond to particular
neurotransmitters. my experience of pdocs is they first try something heavy like haleperidol to try and hammer it out of you then guess what meds you should be taking longterm, then change perscription if the patient complains.
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I must be in "disagree mode". I can tell you "banhappinesspills" that the XXY brain has been studied and structural differnces have be en noted in it, and I have an XXY brain. I don’t particularly give a damn if the exact cause and reason for treatment succeeding is 100% known or 0% known, so long as I can do what I want to do without causing harm to anyone else, I’m happy. I’m sure I won’t be happy and I know I was never happy, without my personality altering medication. See I don’t care about why it works only that it works. If it didn’t work, as marijuana doen’t work and alcohol doesn’t work I wouldn’t take it, as I don’t marijuana and alcohol. Of couirse to know those don’t work I had to give them a decent trail. :-) I can be very content on ‘happy – baccy’ and ‘fire water’, but neither solves my shitty temper, piss poor outlook on life and flambouyant over the top personality, in fact they actually make these worse as I constantly needed to increase my dosage to get the required effect. On alcohol ist’s very easy to be ‘over the limit’ on a very small volume. I have been taking the ‘happypills" for over two years without needing to alter the dosage at all. — "All people are unique, only some people are a lot more unique than the rest"
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Nothing has changed in Psychiatry since Freud. They are no closer to > understanding the brain. They still have not identified a single > chemical imbalance. They are doing the equivalent of pouring dangerous > chemicals on the brain to see what happens. The studies are conducted > by the drug companies and the drugs often still don’t beat a sugar > pill. The companies can conduct study after study on a drug until they > get the result they need to satisfy FDA. > Btw, the woman almost died of infection since he did not clean the > instruments.
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psychiatry is quackery. Group Health Cooperative of Puget Sound psychiatrists destroyed my life with their drugz and quack diagnosis.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Nothing has changed in Psychiatry since Freud. They are no closer to >understanding the brain. They still have not identified a single >chemical imbalance. They are doing the equivalent of pouring dangerous >chemicals on the brain to see what happens. The studies are conducted >by the drug companies and the drugs often still don’t beat a sugar >pill. The companies can conduct study after study on a drug until they >get the result they need to satisfy FDA. >Btw, the woman almost died of infection since he did not clean the >instruments.
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– DSM IV is the fabrication upon which psychiatry seeks acceptance by medicine in general. Insiders know it is more a political than scientific document. To its credit it says so –Loren R. Mosher, M.D. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Nothing has changed in Psychiatry since Freud. They are no closer to >understanding the brain. They still have not identified a single >chemical imbalance. They are doing the equivalent of pouring dangerous >chemicals on the brain to see what happens. The studies are conducted >by the drug companies and the drugs often still don’t beat a sugar >pill. The companies can conduct study after study on a drug until they >get the result they need to satisfy FDA. >Btw, the woman almost died of infection since he did not clean the >instruments. >The problem with that is modern psychiatry recognizes that as bogus. >When one does initial experimental ideas , one doesnt know if they >will hold up in the long run. But the point is , under the more formal >scientific field , ideas are tested and discarded even as flawed and >full of errors as it is. > Unfortunately people like are of the same ilk , pushing fraudulent >hokey quack natural and alternative points of view , perhaps even a >raving mad scientologist , in which you except ideas that rival Freuds >discarded theories in perpetuity , subject them to no testing and >demand absolutely no criteria for establishing their worth except on >the basis of faith in some trendy point of view now popular. Thats >the difference. >For every one freud – there must have been a million people selling >electricty , magnetism, hypnosis, natural living , diet — as a >cure-all and still do. >Be Wary of "Alternative" Health Methods >Stephen Barrett, M.D. >"Alternative medicine" has become the politically correct term for >questionable practices formerly labeled quack and fraudulent. During >the past few years, most media reports have contained no critical >evaluation and have featured the views of proponents and their >satisfied clients. >Science versus Vitalism >Science assumes that in order to develop a coherent body of knowledge, >it is necessary to assume that supernatural powers do not exist or, if >they do exist, they do not interfere. If such interference were >possible, then all attempts at controlled experimentation would be >either impossible or pointless. >Many "alternative" approaches are rooted in vitalism, the concept that >bodily functions are due to a vital principle or "life force" distinct >from the physical forces explainable by the laws of physics and >chemistry and detectable by scientific instrumentation. Practitioners >whose methods are based on vitalistic philosophy maintain that >diseases should be treated by "stimulating the body’s ability to heal >itself" rather than by "treating symptoms." Homeopaths, for example, >claim that illness is due to a disturbance of the body’s "vital >force," which they can correct with special remedies, while many >acupuncturists claim that disease is due to imbalance in the flow of >"life energy" (chi or Qi), which they can balance by twirling needles >in the skin. Many chiropractors claim to assist the body’s "Innate >Intelligence" by adjusting the patient’s spine. Naturopaths speak of >"Vis Medicatrix Naturae." Ayurvedic physicians refer to "prana." And >so on. The "energies" postulated by vitalists cannot be measured by >scientific methods. >Although vitalists often pretend to be scientific, they really reject >the scientific method with its basic assumptions of material reality, >mechanisms of cause and effect, and testability of hypotheses. They >regard personal experience, subjective judgment, and emotional >satisfaction as preferable to objectivity and hard evidence. >Some "alternative" proponents are physicians who have strayed from >scientific thought. The factors that motivate them can include >delusional thinking, misinterpretation of personal experience, >financial considerations, and pleasure derived from notoriety and/or >patient adulation. >Overclaim and Puffery >"Alternative" promoters often claim that their approach promotes >general health and is cost-effective against chronic health problems. >In a recent article, for example, the American Holistic Association’s >president claimed that various "basic healthy habits" would "tap a >well-spring of physical energy experienced as a state of relaxed >vitality." [7] In addition to exercising, eating a nutritious diet, >and getting sufficient sleep, the list includes abdominal breathing; >taking "a full complement of antioxidants and supplements; and >"enhancing the body’s ability to receive and generate bioenergy" >through regular acupuncture treatments, acupressure, healing touch, >craniosacral therapy, qigong, and several other nonstandard >modalities. As far as I know, there is no published evidence that >"alternative" practitioners are more effective than mainstream >physicians in persuading their patients to improve their lifestyle. >Nor have any vitalistic approaches been proven effective or >cost-effective against any disease. >National Council Against Health Fraud president William T. Jarvis, >Ph.D., has noted: >Some techniques referred to as "alternative" may be appropriately used >as part of the art of patient care. Relaxation techniques and massage >are examples. But procedures linked to belief systems that reject >science itself have no place in responsible medicine. Useless >procedures don’t add to the outcome, just to the overhead. >Many news reports have exaggerated the significance of the National >Institutes of Health (NIH)’s Office of Alternative Medicine (OAM). >Creation of this office was spearheaded by promoters of questionable >cancer therapies who wanted more attention paid to their methods. Most >of OAM’s advisory panel members have been promoters of "alternative" >methods, and none of its publications have criticized any method. In >1994, the OAM’s first director resigned, charging that political >interference had hampered his ability to carry out OAM’s mission in a >scientific manner [6]. The OAM has funded many studies related to >"alternative" methods. However, it remains to be seen whether such >studies will yield useful results. Even if some do, their benefit is >unlikely to outweigh the publicity bonanza given to questionable >methods. In 1998, Congress upgraded OAM into an NIH center with an >annual budget of $50 million. The agency is now called the National >Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM). >An Activist’s Observations >Rosemary Jacobs, an consumer activist who operates a Web site that >debunks colloidal silver, has made some penetrating observations with >which I agree: >"Alternative therapy" is a marketing term that should not be >permitted. All the public wants is safe, effective and efficient. They >also want objective standards of measurement used to determine what is >safe, effective and efficient. There is a general consensus as to what >those standards are among scientists and rational people for most >therapies. In other words, for most diseases and conditions, experts >know what works, what doesn’t work, what is unknown and what falls >into a gray area – - what may work but the jury is still out. >Anyone wanting to practice engineering or architecture has to abide by >objective standards. I think that anyone who wants to practice >medicine professionally should have to so too. People who believe that >personal experience is the best way to evaluate drugs and therapies >should have to identify themselves as spiritualists or New Age >religious practitioners but not as medical practitioners. They should >be forced to admit to themselves and to the world that they reject >science and objective standards, and they should never be allowed to >sell the drugs they prescribe [9].
Response:
September 26, 2002
Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am in chronic pain due to degenerative disc disease having had 2 > discectomies at L4-L5 causing chronic pain in my lower back, butt, hips and > legs. Three discs in my lower back, and two in my neck are badly > degenerated. I have taken different antidepressants to help with pain > management. I have started to take nortryptiline, 100 mg at bedtime and it > is starting to help after about 6 weeks. I am taking Oxycontin and > oxycodone, a total of 90 mgs. daily. I also have carpal tunnel in both > hands. The problem I have with nortryptiline and the narcotic meds is > constipation. It was manageable when I was taking Remeron, but with the > nortryptiline, it is difficult to manage. What experiences has anyone had > with antidepressants and narcotic pain killers? What combination has worked > well for you? > phil b.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am in chronic pain due to degenerative disc disease having had 2 > discectomies at L4-L5 causing chronic pain in my lower back, butt, hips > and > legs. Three discs in my lower back, and two in my neck are badly > degenerated. I have taken different antidepressants to help with pain > management. I have started to take nortryptiline, 100 mg at bedtime and > it > is starting to help after about 6 weeks. I am taking Oxycontin and > oxycodone, a total of 90 mgs. daily. I also have carpal tunnel in both > hands. The problem I have with nortryptiline and the narcotic meds is > constipation. It was manageable when I was taking Remeron, but with the > nortryptiline, it is difficult to manage. What experiences has anyone had > with antidepressants and narcotic pain killers? What combination has > worked > well for you? > phil b.
I know anti-depressants are sometimes prescribed for pain, but I wonder how much of that is just because doctors are scared to properly prescribe pain killers. In my case, ADs do nothing for the pain, but pain killers do. In most cases, reduced pain from ADs is probably just a side-effect of being in a better frame of mine to do stuff, which might take the mind off the pain a bit. — Katharine S.
Response:
I used to take a lot of Elavil. My doctor switched me to Prozac 4 years ago when I moved and changed physicians. It is more effective and has less side affects. The Elavil helped me sleep, but the other side affects were horrible. My physician believes that many of the tricylclic anti-depressants have side affects that make a patient feel sicker than the underlying problem. Constipation is one of the most prevalent side affects of trycyclic anti-depressants (Elavil, Pamelor…), then add the constipation from the opiates, uggh! Prozac is used to help treat my depression. Since I also suffer from insomnia, he prescribed Ambien. In his opinion, Prozac and Ambien are much "cleaner" and safer drugs than Elavil. Prozac is more efficient in treating depression with a fraction of the side affects, and Ambien works better for insomnia. I also take Oxycontin (40 mg twice daily), plus Lortab for breakthrough pain. The constipation from the opiates that I take is NOTHING like I experienced when I took trycyclic antidepressants.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I am in chronic pain due to degenerative disc disease having had 2 > > discectomies at L4-L5 causing chronic pain in my lower back, butt, hips > and > > legs. Three discs in my lower back, and two in my neck are badly > > degenerated. I have taken different antidepressants to help with pain > > management. I have started to take nortryptiline, 100 mg at bedtime and > it > > is starting to help after about 6 weeks. I am taking Oxycontin and > > oxycodone, a total of 90 mgs. daily. I also have carpal tunnel in both > > hands. The problem I have with nortryptiline and the narcotic meds is > > constipation. It was manageable when I was taking Remeron, but with the > > nortryptiline, it is difficult to manage. What experiences has anyone > had > > with antidepressants and narcotic pain killers? What combination has > worked > > well for you? > > phil b. > I know anti-depressants are sometimes prescribed for pain, but I wonder how > much of that is just because doctors are scared to properly prescribe pain > killers. > In my case, ADs do nothing for the pain, but pain killers do. > In most cases, reduced pain from ADs is probably just a side-effect of being > in a better frame of mine to do stuff, which might take the mind off the > pain a bit. > — > Katharine S.
Response:
Hi Phil: I am on both anti-depressants, two as a matter of fact, and, Vicoprofen. I have pain due to endometriosis, pelvic congestion syndrome (which I use the Vicoprofen for) and, damage to my bowel from the endometriosis and surgery for it. The damage to my bowel causes pain which I take Elavil for and has helped tremendously. The other AD is Celexa which I take for depression due to this mess. I hope this helps. -Sue – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am in chronic pain due to degenerative disc disease having had 2 > discectomies at L4-L5 causing chronic pain in my lower back, butt, hips > and > legs. Three discs in my lower back, and two in my neck are badly > degenerated. I have taken different antidepressants to help with pain > management. I have started to take nortryptiline, 100 mg at bedtime and > it > is starting to help after about 6 weeks. I am taking Oxycontin and > oxycodone, a total of 90 mgs. daily. I also have carpal tunnel in both > hands. The problem I have with nortryptiline and the narcotic meds is > constipation. It was manageable when I was taking Remeron, but with the > nortryptiline, it is difficult to manage. What experiences has anyone had > with antidepressants and narcotic pain killers? What combination has > worked > well for you? > phil b.
Response:
Take metimucil for the constipation. After a few days your stool and bowel movements will return to normal. The opiates ruin the fibers and so the metimucil replenishes them and returns you to normal without diarhia. My mom lived on oxycodone for ten years and it worked for her. As far as AD’s they are given to people with Chronic Pain because a lot of times the person fights severe depression because their quality of life deteriorates while taking pain meds and not being able to do the things they used to. AD’s are not a pain med…. Candice Candice Lee
Response:
> Take metimucil for the constipation. After a few days your stool and bowel > movements will return to normal. The opiates ruin the fibers and so the > metimucil replenishes them and returns you to normal without diarhia. My mom > lived on oxycodone for ten years and it worked for her. As far as AD’s they > are > given to people with Chronic Pain because a lot of times the person fights > severe depression because their quality of life deteriorates while taking > pain > meds and not being able to do the things they used to. AD’s are not a pain > med…. > Candice > Candice Lee
I can’t say that I can directly disprove you, but opiates don’t do anything at all to fiber. The reason they cause constipation is becuase they tend to paralyze the smooth muscles of the large intestine, and things don’t move along as they should. Adding fiber works for other circumstances because it stimulates the muscles into action by adding bulk. In the presence of opiates, you just get more bulk going nowhere. I know some have had good results from added fiber, but, in general this is not too effective. Most doctors will recommend a stimulant laxative like senna, which will get the muscles going again (a bit too well sometimes). There are some docs who believe that certain antidepressants are also effective for reducing pain. I completely agree with your remarks about the need to treat depression, but some of these (especially tricyclics) are prescribed for the pain itself, not the depression. RoryDog
Response:
September 14, 2002
Question:
Hi, Sorry I didn’t write out specifics on my last post, I got interrupted. I was diagnosed with endo about 4 years ago. Have been through 3 laparoscopies, with 2 of them finding endo. The last one I had this past Feb, they found no endo. So my dr sent me to a pain clinic. He has said that it is a nerve down in the pelvic area. I can’t remember the name of it. He said that it was probably aggravated during one of my laps. I have tried: Neurontin, Amitryptiline, Trazadone, Zonagran and currently am on Doxepin. I have had 1 or 2 side effects with all to where I could only handle them a couple of weeks. I just started Doxepin, so I am can’t say anything on that yet. I am currently taking Lortab for pain. I am trying to come up with something else though. Well, I hope this wasn’t too long for you. Thanks for writing back to me on my previous post. Hope to hear from you again. Bessie
Response:
methadone… bob
Response:
HMMM, My doc is my pelvic pain specialist he wants to give the pain meds. So I let him. Wondering if a Luna might work for you. My doc shut off some of the nerves in that area. I hate endo. At first i wanted a diagnosis to know why I was in pain. Now I have a diagnosis and now I do not want the diagnosis. I know it is sick sick sick. Mine is treating me with narcotics we go back and forth duragesic patch and mepergan. I like mepergan better. So we are sticking with that for a while now. All those did nothing for me, and it was waste of my time and my insurance money. He gave up real fast like though. Bonner
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > Sorry I didn’t write out specifics on my last post, I got interrupted. > I was diagnosed with endo about 4 years ago. Have been through 3 > laparoscopies, with 2 of them finding endo. The last one I had this past > Feb, they found no endo. So my dr sent me to a pain clinic. He has > said that it is a nerve down in the pelvic area. I can’t remember the > name of it. He said that it was probably aggravated during one of my > laps. > I have tried: Neurontin, Amitryptiline, Trazadone, Zonagran and > currently am on Doxepin. I have had 1 or 2 side effects with all to > where I could only handle them a couple of weeks. I just started > Doxepin, so I am can’t say anything on that yet. > I am currently taking Lortab for pain. I am trying to come up with > something else though. > Well, I hope this wasn’t too long for you. Thanks for writing back to > me on my previous post. Hope to hear from you again. > Bessie
Response:
What is mepergan? My dr just told me about freezing a nerve. Have you heard of that? He has never done it before. Can I ask if you have any children? That is a big thing for me. I used to be only focused on getting pregnant. Now I am focused on being pain free. Thanks for your input. Bessie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > HMMM, My doc is my pelvic pain specialist he wants to give the pain meds. > So I let him. Wondering if a Luna might work for you. My doc shut off some > of the nerves in that area. I hate endo. At first i wanted a diagnosis to > know why I was in pain. Now I have a diagnosis and now I do not want the > diagnosis. I know it is sick sick sick. Mine is treating me with narcotics > we go back and forth duragesic patch and mepergan. I like mepergan better. > So we are sticking with that for a while now. All those did nothing for me, > and it was waste of my time and my insurance money. He gave up real fast > like though. > Bonner > Hi, > Sorry I didn’t write out specifics on my last post, I got interrupted. > I was diagnosed with endo about 4 years ago. Have been through 3 > laparoscopies, with 2 of them finding endo. The last one I had this past > Feb, they found no endo. So my dr sent me to a pain clinic. He has > said that it is a nerve down in the pelvic area. I can’t remember the > name of it. He said that it was probably aggravated during one of my > laps. > I have tried: Neurontin, Amitryptiline, Trazadone, Zonagran and > currently am on Doxepin. I have had 1 or 2 side effects with all to > where I could only handle them a couple of weeks. I just started > Doxepin, so I am can’t say anything on that yet. > I am currently taking Lortab for pain. I am trying to come up with > something else though. > Well, I hope this wasn’t too long for you. Thanks for writing back to > me on my previous post. Hope to hear from you again. > Bessie
Response:
Bessie, Demerol and phenergan (Mepergan). I do not know about freezing the nerve. I just had Luna done 1 1/2 years ago. As far as having children we have not been successful. There is a endometriosis group. I have had a total of 4 pregnancies. None went to term. Last time from what I heard I had 3 babies inside me before I started siezuring and stroked. I lost them though that was in 2000. Many have gone on to have children though. It is not a instance you can not have children. My Mom had endo and my sister had endo both of them had children. All depends on the extent of it though. Bonner
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What is mepergan? My dr just told me about freezing a nerve. Have you heard of > that? He has never done it before. Can I ask if you have any children? > That is a big thing for me. I used to be only focused on getting pregnant. Now > I am focused on being pain free. > Thanks for your input. > Bessie > HMMM, My doc is my pelvic pain specialist he wants to give the pain meds. > So I let him. Wondering if a Luna might work for you. My doc shut off some > of the nerves in that area. I hate endo. At first i wanted a diagnosis to > know why I was in pain. Now I have a diagnosis and now I do not want the > diagnosis. I know it is sick sick sick. Mine is treating me with narcotics > we go back and forth duragesic patch and mepergan. I like mepergan better. > So we are sticking with that for a while now. All those did nothing for me, > and it was waste of my time and my insurance money. He gave up real fast > like though. > Bonner > > Hi, > > Sorry I didn’t write out specifics on my last post, I got interrupted. > > I was diagnosed with endo about 4 years ago. Have been through 3 > > laparoscopies, with 2 of them finding endo. The last one I had this past > > Feb, they found no endo. So my dr sent me to a pain clinic. He has > > said that it is a nerve down in the pelvic area. I can’t remember the > > name of it. He said that it was probably aggravated during one of my > > laps. > > I have tried: Neurontin, Amitryptiline, Trazadone, Zonagran and > > currently am on Doxepin. I have had 1 or 2 side effects with all to > > where I could only handle them a couple of weeks. I just started > > Doxepin, so I am can’t say anything on that yet. > > I am currently taking Lortab for pain. I am trying to come up with > > something else though. > > Well, I hope this wasn’t too long for you. Thanks for writing back to > > me on my previous post. Hope to hear from you again. > > Bessie
Response:
I had a LONG email typed to this, so I will do it again later….grrrr…I hit the wrong key and it wouldn’t undo. I HATE that. Nikki ******* I am who I am Your approval is neither Desired nor required ******* "When you throw mud at someone, remember you are the one who is losing ground." ******* "He that can’t endure the bad will not live to see the good." *******
Response:
September 13, 2002
Question:
Hello all I posted much here, mainly I lurk. Sorry if this has been discussed before. I need input from anyone here in the US that is getting their meds from a online Canadian pharmacy. I have found one called CanadaPharmacy.com but the only mailing address is a PO box in Washington, so am not sure if they are legit. The above has some of my meds at a third of the price, and I really need to save as much as possible as I pay my own meds (No INS). Can you recommend an online Canadian pharmacy source? Also, is it legal to buy in Canada? bobby
Response:
For the hell of it, if you let me know what you are taking and the quantities you would want, I’ll ask my pharmacist what the costs would be. They all know me on sight and a first name basis. Last year I took them chocolates for xmas. 8^) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello all >I posted much here, mainly I lurk. Sorry if this has been discussed before. >I need input from anyone here in the US that is getting their meds from a >online >Canadian pharmacy. >I have found one called CanadaPharmacy.com but the only mailing address is a >PO box in Washington, so am not sure if they are legit. The above has some >of my meds at a third of the price, and I really need to save as much as >possible as I pay my own meds (No INS). >Can you recommend an online Canadian pharmacy source? >Also, is it legal to buy in Canada? >bobby
Response:
cc’d by email Well, I get my meds in Italy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hello all > I posted much here, mainly I lurk. Sorry if this has been discussed before. > I need input from anyone here in the US that is getting their meds from a > online > Canadian pharmacy. > I have found one called CanadaPharmacy.com but the only mailing address is a > PO box in Washington, so am not sure if they are legit. The above has some > of my meds at a third of the price, and I really need to save as much as > possible as I pay my own meds (No INS). > Can you recommend an online Canadian pharmacy source? > Also, is it legal to buy in Canada? > bobby
Response:
Bobby, I get my meds from DoctorSolve.com. They are in British Columbia, but somehow associated with some entity in Washington State too. According to a study done by a seattle newspaper, it was by far the cheapest of any of the canadian pharmacies (even cheaper than CanadianPharmacy.com). Through DoctorSolve.com I pay about 1/3 of the price for meds that I would have to pay in the states. Sorry…don’t truly know of the legalities…have heard differing things though including some a#*hole from the FDA on CNN a couple of weeks ago saying it was illegal to but from Canada, but that the FEDS would not go after little old grandmas who were trying to get cheaper prescriptions. As for me I will take my chances cause things cost way too much here. Hope you get it figured out, Terry
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello all > I posted much here, mainly I lurk. Sorry if this has been discussed before. > I need input from anyone here in the US that is getting their meds from a > online > Canadian pharmacy. > I have found one called CanadaPharmacy.com but the only mailing address is a > PO box in Washington, so am not sure if they are legit. The above has some > of my meds at a third of the price, and I really need to save as much as > possible as I pay my own meds (No INS). > Can you recommend an online Canadian pharmacy source? > Also, is it legal to buy in Canada? > bobby
Response:
OK here goes. Metformin 500mg 90 pills a month Glyburide 5mg 60 pills a month Starlix 120mg 90 pills per month Metoclopramide 10mg 120 pills a month Lisinopril 5mg 30 pills a month. Amitriptyline 50mg 30 pills a month Phomethazine 25mg 30 pills Combivent 200 puffs 2 per month Albuterol 100 puffs 3 per month I was able to fine some of these on a Canadian site but don’t know if I can trust them as they only listed a PO box for address. Thanks for your assistance bobby
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For the hell of it, if you let me know what you are taking and the > quantities you would want, I’ll ask my pharmacist what the costs would > be. > They all know me on sight and a first name basis. Last year I took > them chocolates for xmas. 8^) >Hello all >I posted much here, mainly I lurk. Sorry if this has been discussed before. >I need input from anyone here in the US that is getting their meds from a >online >Canadian pharmacy. >I have found one called CanadaPharmacy.com but the only mailing address is a >PO box in Washington, so am not sure if they are legit. The above has some >of my meds at a third of the price, and I really need to save as much as >possible as I pay my own meds (No INS). >Can you recommend an online Canadian pharmacy source? >Also, is it legal to buy in Canada? >bobby
Response:
I know of a couple of retired persons who get their meds from canadameds.com They say they pay about 1/2 to 1/3 of prices in US, and get their meds reliably. This one is a pharmacy in British Columbia, and their literature says it is legal.
Response:
Terry Thank you for the info. I wiil check it out. bobby
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Bobby, > I get my meds from DoctorSolve.com. > They are in British Columbia, but somehow associated with some entity in > Washington State too. According to a study done by a seattle newspaper, it > was by far the cheapest of any of the canadian pharmacies (even cheaper than > CanadianPharmacy.com). Through DoctorSolve.com I pay about 1/3 of the price > for meds that I would have to pay in the states. > Sorry…don’t truly know of the legalities…have heard differing things > though including some a#*hole from the FDA on CNN a couple of weeks ago > saying it was illegal to but from Canada, but that the FEDS would not go > after little old grandmas who were trying to get cheaper prescriptions. > As for me I will take my chances cause things cost way too much here. Hope > you get it figured out, > Terry
Response:
August 1, 2002
Question:
>Oh for god’s sake leave Paul alone already and grow up…..Talk about >trolls…. >Becky >Oh, by the way no need to reply I kerplunked you already……that is what >normal people do if someone bothers them……get a life
The second case is a twenty-eight year old computer specialist Paul Montgomery who almost became addicted to the internet, searching for web sites under the keyword
July 30, 2002
Question:
Go see a shrink and discuss DID & BPD(the other kind).
Response:
Chocolate Snake Ingredients: 1/2 C. Peanut butter 1/2 C. Dry milk 1/2 C. Honey 1 T. Cocoa 1/2 t. Vanilla extract 1/2 C. Finely Diced & Chopped mixed nuts 1/2 C. Raisins 2 T. Shredded Coconut Directions 1. Combine peanut butter and dry milk until blended 2. Stir in, one at a time, honey, cocoa, vanilla extract, nuts, raisins, and coconut 3. Place mixture on wax paper and roll into a long thick snake shape 4. Wrap in wax paper and chill 5. To serve, either have children pull off pieces, or cut into slices
Response:
Yummy!!!!! ) Big hugs, TK
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Chocolate Snake > Ingredients: > 1/2 C. Peanut butter > 1/2 C. Dry milk > 1/2 C. Honey > 1 T. Cocoa > 1/2 t. Vanilla extract > 1/2 C. Finely Diced & Chopped mixed nuts > 1/2 C. Raisins > 2 T. Shredded Coconut > Directions > 1. Combine peanut butter and dry milk until blended > 2. Stir in, one at a time, honey, cocoa, vanilla extract, nuts, raisins, and > coconut > 3. Place mixture on wax paper and roll into a long thick snake shape > 4. Wrap in wax paper and chill > 5. To serve, either have children pull off pieces, or cut into slices
Response:
> Yummy!!!!! ) > Big hugs, > TK > Chocolate Snake
CHARGES: Felony Assault Resisting Arrest Interfering with domestic violence reporting Witness tampering Malicious mischief SENTENCE: 12 months jail time 11 days served 12 months probation No further law violations No Contact Order $500 victim penalty assessment $259 medical bills to victim the woman he beat Police were forced to use leg restraints, and pepper spray. PRIORS: Two arrests years earlier for assault and harassment One previous conviction Known Aliases: DRUGS: About three years of Lithium and some other stuff like desipramine, zoloft, crack, klonopin, acid, nortriptyline, pot, zyprexa, vicodin, tegretol, bupropion, ’shrooms, mescaline, meth&benzedrine, dilaudid, morphine, heroin, cocaine, killer weed, assasin hash hish… You name it, I done it…. Until I ran out of money…. then nothing. I’m cured. Warning Signs You may be at risk for domestic violence if your partner is doing any of the following things: Putting you down: for example, your partner may call you names, criticize you frequently, humiliate you in public or private, or make you feel crazy.
Response:
July 28, 2002
Question:
Go Suck A Cab Driver’s Ass.
Response:
> Fuck off, cross-posting troll.
CHARGES: Felony Assault Resisting Arrest Interfering with domestic violence reporting Witness tampering Malicious mischief SENTENCE: 12 months jail time 11 days served 12 months probation No further law violations No Contact Order $500 victim penalty assessment $259 medical bills to victim the woman he beat Police were forced to use leg restraints, and pepper spray. PRIORS: Two arrests years earlier for assault and harassment One previous conviction Known Aliases: DRUGS: About three years of Lithium and some other stuff like desipramine, zoloft, crack, klonopin, acid, nortriptyline, pot, zyprexa, vicodin, tegretol, bupropion, ’shrooms, mescaline, meth&benzedrine, dilaudid, morphine, heroin, cocaine, killer weed, assasin hash hish… You name it, I done it…. Until I ran out of money…. then nothing. I’m cured. Warning Signs You may be at risk for domestic violence if your partner is doing any of the following things: Putting you down: for example, your partner may call you names, criticize you frequently, humiliate you in public or private, or make you feel crazy.
Response:
July 28, 2002
Question:
I spent three years trying to find the right meds but I did finally find them. They are diet, exercise, meditation and therapy. I’ve been psychiatric drug free since Feb of this year. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I dont want to give you dissappointing news but it can take quit awhile to >find the right meds. Som pple are lucky and get the right ones emefiately >but those like me,it can take forever. Just dont give up. > Hello.My name is Jason.I have a question for you all.I have been on and >off > meds since 99,I am currently on zyprexa,and zyprexa has helped a little >bit,but > not enough,I am frustrated because I have tried other meds and they did >not > help,only one did,lithium,but I had to quit taking lithium because it made >me > vomit constantly.so my question is how long did it take for you all to >find the > right med that worked for you,does it sometimes take a while to find the >right > med to work?
Response:
Hello.My name is Jason.I have a question for you all.I have been on and off meds since 99,I am currently on zyprexa,and zyprexa has helped a little bit,but not enough,I am frustrated because I have tried other meds and they did not help,only one did,lithium,but I had to quit taking lithium because it made me vomit constantly.so my question is how long did it take for you all to find the right med that worked for you,does it sometimes take a while to find the right med to work?
Response:
About three years of Lithium and some other stuff like desipramine, zoloft, crack, klonopin, acid, nortriptyline, pot, zyprexa, vicodin, tegretol, bupropion, ’shrooms, mescaline, meth&benzedrine, dilaudid, morphine, heroin, cocaine, killer weed, assasin hash hish… You name it, I done it…. Until I ran out of money…. then nothing. I’m cured.
Response:
I dont want to give you dissappointing news but it can take quit awhile to find the right meds. Som pple are lucky and get the right ones emefiately but those like me,it can take forever. Just dont give up. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello.My name is Jason.I have a question for you all.I have been on and off > meds since 99,I am currently on zyprexa,and zyprexa has helped a little bit,but > not enough,I am frustrated because I have tried other meds and they did not > help,only one did,lithium,but I had to quit taking lithium because it made me > vomit constantly.so my question is how long did it take for you all to find the > right med that worked for you,does it sometimes take a while to find the right > med to work?
Response:
Took me over a year. Zyprexa is the main medication for me! Keeps me from the "highs." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello.My name is Jason.I have a question for you all.I have been on and off > meds since 99,I am currently on zyprexa,and zyprexa has helped a little bit,but > not enough,I am frustrated because I have tried other meds and they did not > help,only one did,lithium,but I had to quit taking lithium because it made me > vomit constantly.so my question is how long did it take for you all to find the > right med that worked for you,does it sometimes take a while to find the right > med to work?
Response:
July 24, 2002
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