Filed under: Amitriptyline
Question:
>5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW
Maybe this is what started his anxiety? Poor kitty 
Lauren =^..^= See my cats: http://www.picturetrail.com/mickey4paws/703043 To Error is Human, To be Purrfect is Feline
Response:
> >5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW > Maybe this is what started his anxiety? Poor kitty > Lauren
Yes, when I saw the list, I suddenly began to think about the declaw. My sister really adores these cats, and I don’t think she would have put them through the procedure if she had known of the problems it can cause. Years ago, I had plans to declaw one cat myself (long before I had done any reading on the subject). Fortunately, this cat was several months old when I adopted him, and he was a large cat; so the vet recommended against the declaw because he said the cat’s weight would cause more pain and a longer recuperation period than would have been true when he was a kitten. Later, I began to read about the dreadful effects and finally realized that this really is amputation. Furthermore, the cat trained easily to a scratching post. What a tragedy it would have been if I had subjected him to this procedure. I later adopted a wonderful little cat that had already been declawed (all four paws!!). She compensated in many ways, but her balance and agility never was the same as my cats who kept their claws; and I think that some of her litter box problems when she was elderly may have stemmed partly from no claws — that is, the pain of arthritis combined with no claws to protect her when she would try to scratch in the litter box. I don’t have any scientific evidence for this statement, but my observation leads me to believe that it is true.I bought the very softest litter for her that I could find, and that helped some. MaryL
Response:
> I have three cats and they all eat from the same bowl. They all eat dry food. I > suppose I could probably slip troublemaker some wet food with rescue remedy in > it, but I don’t know if he’d eat it, or if it would help. Are you particularly > convinced that rescue remedy works?
Nope. I’m not. I’ve tried it on several occasions and have seen absolutely no results from it. However, if you still want to give it a try, I’ve read that you can administer RR directly into the mouth (just a few drops), or rub some on the inside of the the ears, and I even had one person tell me she dilutes some in water, puts it into an atomizer, and mists it into to the air. She said it worked. >Gotcha. What about mixing it into his food? >Laura >– >>> I have one – he won’t touch it. He digs in the sink and howls if I turn off >the >> water. I’d rather leave the water on and have him drink all he wants than >try >> restricting his water access and have any kidney problems result from it.
CeCe — I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use. –Galileo Galilei
Response:
You may want to consult with an animal behaviorist (like Dr. Dodman) to determine what is the best course of treatment for your cat. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> While we’re talking about anti-anxiety medications, does anyone have a > suggestion for a cat that attacks when it realizes I’m leaving for work in the > morning? One vet suggested buspar, but the last thing this cat needs is more > confidence. He beats up on the other two as it is. I’ve tried Feliway and > Rescue Remedy. Feliway did nothing, and the Rescue Remedy is hard to administer > since he drinks water from a sink left running (so I can’t put it in his water > bowl) and putting the drops into his mouth is a huge battle. I gave up on that. > He’s been seen by four different vets and has had blood work done to rule out > any abnormalities.
Response:
> Amitriptyline is another anti-anxiety med and is not the same as prozac. > Prozac is also know as fluoxetine. As I said before, sometimes it takes > trial and error to find out what anti-anxiety med will work for your cat. > Sue
Thanks, Sue. I appreciate the information. I forwarded your other message (and also Gail’s) to my sister, and I’ll also send this on. I hope she can find a solution — she is desperate for one. MaryL
Response:
>the Rescue Remedy is hard to administer >since he drinks water from a sink left running (so I can’t put it in his >water >bowl) and putting the drops into his mouth is a huge battle. I gave up on >that.
Have you tried putting the Rescue Remedy on his fur and letting him lick it off? I know some people rub it into the outside of the cat’s ears and claim it can be absorbed that way, but I prefer putting on the fur and letting the cat lick it off. The thing about RR is that you need to give it consistently. You can’t just give it a few times and then stop. It will take a few weeks to see effects. Your cat may also need a more specific remedy. If you can figure out which one, you can buy them individually at most health food stores. You might want to check out these sites: http://www.catfaeries.com/ http://www.petsynergy.com/flower.html#C1 HTH, Lauren =^..^= See my cats: http://www.picturetrail.com/mickey4paws/703043 To Error is Human, To be Purrfect is Feline
Response:
I have a cat with whom I am just about at my wit’s end with in regards to his spraying. He also beats up on one of my hubby’s cats for no apparent reason. I have tried just about everything from A to Z including speaking with an animal behavorist. I’ve tried Feliway and Rescue Remedy – no luck. My cat seems to be immune to everything. I have asked the vet about drugs but she doesn’t want to go that route because of problems it may have health-wise. I guess there have been some kidney (or was it liver?) problems associated with either prozac or another kind but I can’t quite recall. If what you are saying is true, that Buspar has no long-term effects, than I will most definitely check into it. In fact I will call my vet tomorrow and get her opinion and write back. Thanks for the information and good luck to your sister. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
Amitriptyline is another anti-anxiety med and is not the same as prozac. Prozac is also know as fluoxetine. As I said before, sometimes it takes trial and error to find out what anti-anxiety med will work for your cat. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. > Thanks, > MaryL > Thanks for the information on Buspar. I have seen good information in > your responses to this NG and have also received personal e-mail. I > really do appreciate the help. > I checked with my sister, and Kelly is actually 5 years old (not 4). > She sent me this list of treatments that he has had: > DATE/TREATMENT > 4/26/1997First Vet visit > 4/26/1997FVRCP given elsewhere date? > 4/29/1997fecal exam > 5/12/1997fecal exam > 5/12/1997AMFOROL oral suspension > 5/15/1997AMFOROL oral suspension > 5/29/1997declaw anesthesia > 5/29/1997TELAZOL > 5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW > 5/29/1997FVRCP 2 OF 2 > 5/29/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA > 6/9/1997ANTIROBE AQUADROPS > 7/8/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA 2 OF 2 > 9/16/1997FLV BLOOD TEST > 9/16/1997CITE FELV PROB > 9/16/1997NEUTERED > 5/15/1998ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA > 2/5/1999URINALYSIS > 2/5/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS > 2/13/1999URINALYSIS > 2/15/1999UR FORMULA CAT FOOD BEGUN1/25/00 STOPPED > 2/27/1999URINALYSIS > 4/8/1999URINALYSIS > 4/9/1999ACEPROMAZINE 10 MG > 4/9/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS > 4/17/1999XRAY (LOOKING FOR BLOCKAGE??) > 4/17/1999CYSTOCENTESIS > 4/17/1999URINALYSIS > 4/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 > 5/8/1999URINALYSIS > 6/25/1999ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA > 6/25/1999AMITRIPTYLINE 10 MG IN USE UNTIL 4/00 > 12/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 > 1/17/2000ORBAX 22.7 MG GREEN > 2/11/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT > 2/14/2000ZENIQUIN 50 MG > 2/26/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT > Does this provide enough information for anyone to hazard an educated > guess as to why she has this continuing problem? Kelly was on > Amitriptyline (Prozac) from 6/99 to 4/00 when my sister gave up as it > was no longer effective. She went to a holistic vet who recommended an > herb but it didn’t have any effect. She can’t remember which herb was > recommnded (several years ago). > My sister is also interested in information about dosage for Buspar. I > sent her to the web site that Gail posted > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html), and that site said > to give 5 mg twice daily. However, her vet prescribed 5 mg daily in two > doses and that is all the prescription is for (total of 5mg daily, not > 10mg). Note: her vet also said that he is not familiar with this > medication. > Thanks for your help. > MaryL
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. > Thanks, > MaryL
Thanks for the information on Buspar. I have seen good information in your responses to this NG and have also received personal e-mail. I really do appreciate the help. I checked with my sister, and Kelly is actually 5 years old (not 4). She sent me this list of treatments that he has had: DATE/TREATMENT 4/26/1997First Vet visit 4/26/1997FVRCP given elsewhere date? 4/29/1997fecal exam 5/12/1997fecal exam 5/12/1997AMFOROL oral suspension 5/15/1997AMFOROL oral suspension 5/29/1997declaw anesthesia 5/29/1997TELAZOL 5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW 5/29/1997FVRCP 2 OF 2 5/29/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA 6/9/1997ANTIROBE AQUADROPS 7/8/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA 2 OF 2 9/16/1997FLV BLOOD TEST 9/16/1997CITE FELV PROB 9/16/1997NEUTERED 5/15/1998ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA 2/5/1999URINALYSIS 2/5/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS 2/13/1999URINALYSIS 2/15/1999UR FORMULA CAT FOOD BEGUN1/25/00 STOPPED 2/27/1999URINALYSIS 4/8/1999URINALYSIS 4/9/1999ACEPROMAZINE 10 MG 4/9/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS 4/17/1999XRAY (LOOKING FOR BLOCKAGE??) 4/17/1999CYSTOCENTESIS 4/17/1999URINALYSIS 4/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 5/8/1999URINALYSIS 6/25/1999ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA 6/25/1999AMITRIPTYLINE 10 MG IN USE UNTIL 4/00 12/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 1/17/2000ORBAX 22.7 MG GREEN 2/11/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT 2/14/2000ZENIQUIN 50 MG 2/26/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT Does this provide enough information for anyone to hazard an educated guess as to why she has this continuing problem? Kelly was on Amitriptyline (Prozac) from 6/99 to 4/00 when my sister gave up as it was no longer effective. She went to a holistic vet who recommended an herb but it didn’t have any effect. She can’t remember which herb was recommnded (several years ago). My sister is also interested in information about dosage for Buspar. I sent her to the web site that Gail posted (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html), and that site said to give 5 mg twice daily. However, her vet prescribed 5 mg daily in two doses and that is all the prescription is for (total of 5mg daily, not 10mg). Note: her vet also said that he is not familiar with this medication. Thanks for your help. MaryL
Response:
While we’re talking about anti-anxiety medications, does anyone have a suggestion for a cat that attacks when it realizes I’m leaving for work in the morning? One vet suggested buspar, but the last thing this cat needs is more confidence. He beats up on the other two as it is. I’ve tried Feliway and Rescue Remedy. Feliway did nothing, and the Rescue Remedy is hard to administer since he drinks water from a sink left running (so I can’t put it in his water bowl) and putting the drops into his mouth is a huge battle. I gave up on that. He’s been seen by four different vets and has had blood work done to rule out any abnormalities.
Response:
I wanted to add that there are several different anti-anxiety meds available to help stop a cat from spraying. You have to try and determine why your cat is spraying and decide what med may help the most. Sometimes it takes trial and error to find out what works. Good luck. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Buspar can be helpful in stopping a cat’s spraying behavior. Buspar gives a > cat that is feeling anxious more confidence. Another medication that can be > used is prozac. I also have a spraying cat. I contacted Dr. Nicholas > Dodman (a reknown animal behaviorist from Tuft’s) to help with my cat’s > problem. Dr. Dodman prescribed prozac for my cat rather than buspirone > because my cat was very territorial and did not need anymore confidence. > The prozac, along with other behavior modifications, really helped get my > cat’s spraying under control. > Dr. Dodman offers programs called PETFAX and VETFAX where he and his > associates will provide assistance with an animal’s behavioral problem. > Your sister may want to check this out. Here’s some info on Dr. Dodman: > http://www.tufts.edu/vet/facpages/dodman_n.html I found it extremely > worthwhile. > Good luck to your sister. I hope she can get her cat’s behavior under > control. I know from experience how difficult this can be. > Sue > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
I have one – he won’t touch it. He digs in the sink and howls if I turn off the water. I’d rather leave the water on and have him drink all he wants than try restricting his water access and have any kidney problems result from it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Have you thought about getting a Drinkwell fountain and leaving the >filter out? Might work. >Laura
Response:
>While we’re talking about anti-anxiety >medications, does anyone have a >suggestion for a cat that attacks when it >realizes I’m leaving for work in the >morning?
Could you please give a detailed description of what happens (before, during and after)? Also, a detailed description of what happens when he beats up on the other cats? There may be a solution to this that won’t require medication. Megan "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu’s Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22
Response:
I have three cats and they all eat from the same bowl. They all eat dry food. I suppose I could probably slip troublemaker some wet food with rescue remedy in it, but I don’t know if he’d eat it, or if it would help. Are you particularly convinced that rescue remedy works? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Gotcha. What about mixing it into his food? >Laura >– >> I have one – he won’t touch it. He digs in the sink and howls if I turn off >the > water. I’d rather leave the water on and have him drink all he wants than >try > restricting his water access and have any kidney problems result from it.
Response:
I’ve posted the whole saga before, and I’ve consulted 4 different vets about it. Everyone says they’ve never seen a cat react this way, only dogs. He has separation anxiety. When I get ready to leave in the morning I have to walk backwards towards the door talking calmly to my cat or else he’ll throw himself at my heels biting and clawing. Sometimes I literally run out the door. I can tell when he’s going to do it because he starts creeping up on me like he would an animal he’s stalking for prey, then he tilts his head sideways preparing to bite. If he does manage to bite he’ll continue to do it until I can get away from him. There have been times I’ve had to run into the bathroom and shut the door, and I’ve had wounds that probably should have had stitches. He’s an indoor kitty with plenty of things to do indoors. It’s not safe for him to go outside because of the wildlife in the area we live. The biting started when he was about 1 year old, when I started working fulltime. I always come home during lunch to visit him, so I don’t think he’s that lonely. When this behaviour started he was the only cat in the household. I got a second cat to try to keep him company, but that one is scared to death of him. I don’t blame her. She’s not social towards cats, so usually just leaves him alone or runs from him. A year ago I got a third cat, not by choice – someone gave me a 3 week old kitten that was found on the railroad tracks. I bottle-raised that one and introduced it to the aggressive male when he was 6 months old. They are great buddies and play very rough together. I thought maybe rough play would curb his need to be aggressive with me, but it didn’t. All the cats in the household are fixed. Like I said in another post, he’s had blood work done to rule out any chemical abnormalities. He also attacks if he’s yelled at for doing something bad, or if I use a squirt bottle on him. Sometimes he gets mad even when I disappear into the shower. He isn’t very clingy to me when I’m home, but does like to sleep on the bed with me. None of the vets I’ve taken him to have had any answers. They all say they’ve never seen a cat like this, and that he’s obviously a smart one. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Could you please give a detailed description of what happens (before, >during and after)? Also, a detailed description of what happens when he >beats up on the other cats? There may be a solution to this that won’t >require medication. >While we’re talking about anti-anxiety >medications, does anyone have a >suggestion for a cat that attacks when it >realizes I’m leaving for work in the >morning?
Response:
They all eat dry food. I don’t think I could mix it into dry food very easily without making a mess. I did try putting diluted rescue remedy in a spray bottle and misting it onto his bedding (suggested by someone in the newsgroups) but that didn’t seem to have any effect. Feeding wet food is not an option. One of the cats won’t eat any sort of wet food, and besides it makes the litterbox smell horribly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Nope, I just got the impression that you were saying it had worked >for you. I’ve not had occasion to use it. However, if it does work, I >would think that it wouldn’t harm the other cats, so mixing it into >the food might be a simple thing to try. >Laura > I have three cats and they all eat from the same bowl. They all eat dry >food. I > suppose I could probably slip troublemaker some wet food with rescue remedy >in > it, but I don’t know if he’d eat it, or if it would help. Are you >particularly > convince
Response:
I have a cat that also sprayed. He is neutered and has no medical problems. I tried Feliway and also an anti-depressant medication. Buspar was the one that helped him stop the spraying. It is definitely worth trying and can be used long term. Gail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
Buspar can be helpful in stopping a cat’s spraying behavior. Buspar gives a cat that is feeling anxious more confidence. Another medication that can be used is prozac. I also have a spraying cat. I contacted Dr. Nicholas Dodman (a reknown animal behaviorist from Tuft’s) to help with my cat’s problem. Dr. Dodman prescribed prozac for my cat rather than buspirone because my cat was very territorial and did not need anymore confidence. The prozac, along with other behavior modifications, really helped get my cat’s spraying under control. Dr. Dodman offers programs called PETFAX and VETFAX where he and his associates will provide assistance with an animal’s behavioral problem. Your sister may want to check this out. Here’s some info on Dr. Dodman: http://www.tufts.edu/vet/facpages/dodman_n.html I found it extremely worthwhile. Good luck to your sister. I hope she can get her cat’s behavior under control. I know from experience how difficult this can be. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a prescription. I also located this site (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral modification. My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway diffuser," as she suggested. I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost anything for them. Thanks, MaryL
Response:
>5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW
Maybe this is what started his anxiety? Poor kitty Lauren =^..^= See my cats: http://www.picturetrail.com/mickey4paws/703043 To Error is Human, To be Purrfect is Feline
Response:
> >5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW > Maybe this is what started his anxiety? Poor kitty > Lauren
Yes, when I saw the list, I suddenly began to think about the declaw. My sister really adores these cats, and I don’t think she would have put them through the procedure if she had known of the problems it can cause. Years ago, I had plans to declaw one cat myself (long before I had done any reading on the subject). Fortunately, this cat was several months old when I adopted him, and he was a large cat; so the vet recommended against the declaw because he said the cat’s weight would cause more pain and a longer recuperation period than would have been true when he was a kitten. Later, I began to read about the dreadful effects and finally realized that this really is amputation. Furthermore, the cat trained easily to a scratching post. What a tragedy it would have been if I had subjected him to this procedure. I later adopted a wonderful little cat that had already been declawed (all four paws!!). She compensated in many ways, but her balance and agility never was the same as my cats who kept their claws; and I think that some of her litter box problems when she was elderly may have stemmed partly from no claws — that is, the pain of arthritis combined with no claws to protect her when she would try to scratch in the litter box. I don’t have any scientific evidence for this statement, but my observation leads me to believe that it is true.I bought the very softest litter for her that I could find, and that helped some. MaryL
Response:
> I have three cats and they all eat from the same bowl. They all eat dry food. I > suppose I could probably slip troublemaker some wet food with rescue remedy in > it, but I don’t know if he’d eat it, or if it would help. Are you particularly > convinced that rescue remedy works?
Nope. I’m not. I’ve tried it on several occasions and have seen absolutely no results from it. However, if you still want to give it a try, I’ve read that you can administer RR directly into the mouth (just a few drops), or rub some on the inside of the the ears, and I even had one person tell me she dilutes some in water, puts it into an atomizer, and mists it into to the air. She said it worked. >Gotcha. What about mixing it into his food? >Laura >– >>> I have one – he won’t touch it. He digs in the sink and howls if I turn off >the >> water. I’d rather leave the water on and have him drink all he wants than >try >> restricting his water access and have any kidney problems result from it.
CeCe — I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use. –Galileo Galilei
Response:
You may want to consult with an animal behaviorist (like Dr. Dodman) to determine what is the best course of treatment for your cat. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> While we’re talking about anti-anxiety medications, does anyone have a > suggestion for a cat that attacks when it realizes I’m leaving for work in the > morning? One vet suggested buspar, but the last thing this cat needs is more > confidence. He beats up on the other two as it is. I’ve tried Feliway and > Rescue Remedy. Feliway did nothing, and the Rescue Remedy is hard to administer > since he drinks water from a sink left running (so I can’t put it in his water > bowl) and putting the drops into his mouth is a huge battle. I gave up on that. > He’s been seen by four different vets and has had blood work done to rule out > any abnormalities.
Response:
> Amitriptyline is another anti-anxiety med and is not the same as prozac. > Prozac is also know as fluoxetine. As I said before, sometimes it takes > trial and error to find out what anti-anxiety med will work for your cat. > Sue
Thanks, Sue. I appreciate the information. I forwarded your other message (and also Gail’s) to my sister, and I’ll also send this on. I hope she can find a solution — she is desperate for one. MaryL
Response:
>the Rescue Remedy is hard to administer >since he drinks water from a sink left running (so I can’t put it in his >water >bowl) and putting the drops into his mouth is a huge battle. I gave up on >that.
Have you tried putting the Rescue Remedy on his fur and letting him lick it off? I know some people rub it into the outside of the cat’s ears and claim it can be absorbed that way, but I prefer putting on the fur and letting the cat lick it off. The thing about RR is that you need to give it consistently. You can’t just give it a few times and then stop. It will take a few weeks to see effects. Your cat may also need a more specific remedy. If you can figure out which one, you can buy them individually at most health food stores. You might want to check out these sites: http://www.catfaeries.com/ http://www.petsynergy.com/flower.html#C1 HTH, Lauren =^..^= See my cats: http://www.picturetrail.com/mickey4paws/703043 To Error is Human, To be Purrfect is Feline
Response:
I have a cat with whom I am just about at my wit’s end with in regards to his spraying. He also beats up on one of my hubby’s cats for no apparent reason. I have tried just about everything from A to Z including speaking with an animal behavorist. I’ve tried Feliway and Rescue Remedy – no luck. My cat seems to be immune to everything. I have asked the vet about drugs but she doesn’t want to go that route because of problems it may have health-wise. I guess there have been some kidney (or was it liver?) problems associated with either prozac or another kind but I can’t quite recall. If what you are saying is true, that Buspar has no long-term effects, than I will most definitely check into it. In fact I will call my vet tomorrow and get her opinion and write back. Thanks for the information and good luck to your sister. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
Amitriptyline is another anti-anxiety med and is not the same as prozac. Prozac is also know as fluoxetine. As I said before, sometimes it takes trial and error to find out what anti-anxiety med will work for your cat. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. > Thanks, > MaryL > Thanks for the information on Buspar. I have seen good information in > your responses to this NG and have also received personal e-mail. I > really do appreciate the help. > I checked with my sister, and Kelly is actually 5 years old (not 4). > She sent me this list of treatments that he has had: > DATE/TREATMENT > 4/26/1997First Vet visit > 4/26/1997FVRCP given elsewhere date? > 4/29/1997fecal exam > 5/12/1997fecal exam > 5/12/1997AMFOROL oral suspension > 5/15/1997AMFOROL oral suspension > 5/29/1997declaw anesthesia > 5/29/1997TELAZOL > 5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW > 5/29/1997FVRCP 2 OF 2 > 5/29/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA > 6/9/1997ANTIROBE AQUADROPS > 7/8/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA 2 OF 2 > 9/16/1997FLV BLOOD TEST > 9/16/1997CITE FELV PROB > 9/16/1997NEUTERED > 5/15/1998ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA > 2/5/1999URINALYSIS > 2/5/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS > 2/13/1999URINALYSIS > 2/15/1999UR FORMULA CAT FOOD BEGUN1/25/00 STOPPED > 2/27/1999URINALYSIS > 4/8/1999URINALYSIS > 4/9/1999ACEPROMAZINE 10 MG > 4/9/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS > 4/17/1999XRAY (LOOKING FOR BLOCKAGE??) > 4/17/1999CYSTOCENTESIS > 4/17/1999URINALYSIS > 4/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 > 5/8/1999URINALYSIS > 6/25/1999ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA > 6/25/1999AMITRIPTYLINE 10 MG IN USE UNTIL 4/00 > 12/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 > 1/17/2000ORBAX 22.7 MG GREEN > 2/11/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT > 2/14/2000ZENIQUIN 50 MG > 2/26/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT > Does this provide enough information for anyone to hazard an educated > guess as to why she has this continuing problem? Kelly was on > Amitriptyline (Prozac) from 6/99 to 4/00 when my sister gave up as it > was no longer effective. She went to a holistic vet who recommended an > herb but it didn’t have any effect. She can’t remember which herb was > recommnded (several years ago). > My sister is also interested in information about dosage for Buspar. I > sent her to the web site that Gail posted > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html), and that site said > to give 5 mg twice daily. However, her vet prescribed 5 mg daily in two > doses and that is all the prescription is for (total of 5mg daily, not > 10mg). Note: her vet also said that he is not familiar with this > medication. > Thanks for your help. > MaryL
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. > Thanks, > MaryL
Thanks for the information on Buspar. I have seen good information in your responses to this NG and have also received personal e-mail. I really do appreciate the help. I checked with my sister, and Kelly is actually 5 years old (not 4). She sent me this list of treatments that he has had: DATE/TREATMENT 4/26/1997First Vet visit 4/26/1997FVRCP given elsewhere date? 4/29/1997fecal exam 5/12/1997fecal exam 5/12/1997AMFOROL oral suspension 5/15/1997AMFOROL oral suspension 5/29/1997declaw anesthesia 5/29/1997TELAZOL 5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW 5/29/1997FVRCP 2 OF 2 5/29/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA 6/9/1997ANTIROBE AQUADROPS 7/8/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA 2 OF 2 9/16/1997FLV BLOOD TEST 9/16/1997CITE FELV PROB 9/16/1997NEUTERED 5/15/1998ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA 2/5/1999URINALYSIS 2/5/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS 2/13/1999URINALYSIS 2/15/1999UR FORMULA CAT FOOD BEGUN1/25/00 STOPPED 2/27/1999URINALYSIS 4/8/1999URINALYSIS 4/9/1999ACEPROMAZINE 10 MG 4/9/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS 4/17/1999XRAY (LOOKING FOR BLOCKAGE??) 4/17/1999CYSTOCENTESIS 4/17/1999URINALYSIS 4/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 5/8/1999URINALYSIS 6/25/1999ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA 6/25/1999AMITRIPTYLINE 10 MG IN USE UNTIL 4/00 12/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 1/17/2000ORBAX 22.7 MG GREEN 2/11/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT 2/14/2000ZENIQUIN 50 MG 2/26/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT Does this provide enough information for anyone to hazard an educated guess as to why she has this continuing problem? Kelly was on Amitriptyline (Prozac) from 6/99 to 4/00 when my sister gave up as it was no longer effective. She went to a holistic vet who recommended an herb but it didn’t have any effect. She can’t remember which herb was recommnded (several years ago). My sister is also interested in information about dosage for Buspar. I sent her to the web site that Gail posted (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html), and that site said to give 5 mg twice daily. However, her vet prescribed 5 mg daily in two doses and that is all the prescription is for (total of 5mg daily, not 10mg). Note: her vet also said that he is not familiar with this medication. Thanks for your help. MaryL
Response:
While we’re talking about anti-anxiety medications, does anyone have a suggestion for a cat that attacks when it realizes I’m leaving for work in the morning? One vet suggested buspar, but the last thing this cat needs is more confidence. He beats up on the other two as it is. I’ve tried Feliway and Rescue Remedy. Feliway did nothing, and the Rescue Remedy is hard to administer since he drinks water from a sink left running (so I can’t put it in his water bowl) and putting the drops into his mouth is a huge battle. I gave up on that. He’s been seen by four different vets and has had blood work done to rule out any abnormalities.
Response:
I wanted to add that there are several different anti-anxiety meds available to help stop a cat from spraying. You have to try and determine why your cat is spraying and decide what med may help the most. Sometimes it takes trial and error to find out what works. Good luck. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Buspar can be helpful in stopping a cat’s spraying behavior. Buspar gives a > cat that is feeling anxious more confidence. Another medication that can be > used is prozac. I also have a spraying cat. I contacted Dr. Nicholas > Dodman (a reknown animal behaviorist from Tuft’s) to help with my cat’s > problem. Dr. Dodman prescribed prozac for my cat rather than buspirone > because my cat was very territorial and did not need anymore confidence. > The prozac, along with other behavior modifications, really helped get my > cat’s spraying under control. > Dr. Dodman offers programs called PETFAX and VETFAX where he and his > associates will provide assistance with an animal’s behavioral problem. > Your sister may want to check this out. Here’s some info on Dr. Dodman: > http://www.tufts.edu/vet/facpages/dodman_n.html I found it extremely > worthwhile. > Good luck to your sister. I hope she can get her cat’s behavior under > control. I know from experience how difficult this can be. > Sue > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
I have one – he won’t touch it. He digs in the sink and howls if I turn off the water. I’d rather leave the water on and have him drink all he wants than try restricting his water access and have any kidney problems result from it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Have you thought about getting a Drinkwell fountain and leaving the >filter out? Might work. >Laura
Response:
>While we’re talking about anti-anxiety >medications, does anyone have a >suggestion for a cat that attacks when it >realizes I’m leaving for work in the >morning?
Could you please give a detailed description of what happens (before, during and after)? Also, a detailed description of what happens when he beats up on the other cats? There may be a solution to this that won’t require medication. Megan "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu’s Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22
Response:
I have three cats and they all eat from the same bowl. They all eat dry food. I suppose I could probably slip troublemaker some wet food with rescue remedy in it, but I don’t know if he’d eat it, or if it would help. Are you particularly convinced that rescue remedy works? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Gotcha. What about mixing it into his food? >Laura >– >> I have one – he won’t touch it. He digs in the sink and howls if I turn off >the > water. I’d rather leave the water on and have him drink all he wants than >try > restricting his water access and have any kidney problems result from it.
Response:
I’ve posted the whole saga before, and I’ve consulted 4 different vets about it. Everyone says they’ve never seen a cat react this way, only dogs. He has separation anxiety. When I get ready to leave in the morning I have to walk backwards towards the door talking calmly to my cat or else he’ll throw himself at my heels biting and clawing. Sometimes I literally run out the door. I can tell when he’s going to do it because he starts creeping up on me like he would an animal he’s stalking for prey, then he tilts his head sideways preparing to bite. If he does manage to bite he’ll continue to do it until I can get away from him. There have been times I’ve had to run into the bathroom and shut the door, and I’ve had wounds that probably should have had stitches. He’s an indoor kitty with plenty of things to do indoors. It’s not safe for him to go outside because of the wildlife in the area we live. The biting started when he was about 1 year old, when I started working fulltime. I always come home during lunch to visit him, so I don’t think he’s that lonely. When this behaviour started he was the only cat in the household. I got a second cat to try to keep him company, but that one is scared to death of him. I don’t blame her. She’s not social towards cats, so usually just leaves him alone or runs from him. A year ago I got a third cat, not by choice – someone gave me a 3 week old kitten that was found on the railroad tracks. I bottle-raised that one and introduced it to the aggressive male when he was 6 months old. They are great buddies and play very rough together. I thought maybe rough play would curb his need to be aggressive with me, but it didn’t. All the cats in the household are fixed. Like I said in another post, he’s had blood work done to rule out any chemical abnormalities. He also attacks if he’s yelled at for doing something bad, or if I use a squirt bottle on him. Sometimes he gets mad even when I disappear into the shower. He isn’t very clingy to me when I’m home, but does like to sleep on the bed with me. None of the vets I’ve taken him to have had any answers. They all say they’ve never seen a cat like this, and that he’s obviously a smart one. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Could you please give a detailed description of what happens (before, >during and after)? Also, a detailed description of what happens when he >beats up on the other cats? There may be a solution to this that won’t >require medication. >While we’re talking about anti-anxiety >medications, does anyone have a >suggestion for a cat that attacks when it >realizes I’m leaving for work in the >morning?
Response:
They all eat dry food. I don’t think I could mix it into dry food very easily without making a mess. I did try putting diluted rescue remedy in a spray bottle and misting it onto his bedding (suggested by someone in the newsgroups) but that didn’t seem to have any effect. Feeding wet food is not an option. One of the cats won’t eat any sort of wet food, and besides it makes the litterbox smell horribly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Nope, I just got the impression that you were saying it had worked >for you. I’ve not had occasion to use it. However, if it does work, I >would think that it wouldn’t harm the other cats, so mixing it into >the food might be a simple thing to try. >Laura > I have three cats and they all eat from the same bowl. They all eat dry >food. I > suppose I could probably slip troublemaker some wet food with rescue remedy >in > it, but I don’t know if he’d eat it, or if it would help. Are you >particularly > convince
Response:
I have a cat that also sprayed. He is neutered and has no medical problems. I tried Feliway and also an anti-depressant medication. Buspar was the one that helped him stop the spraying. It is definitely worth trying and can be used long term. Gail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
Buspar can be helpful in stopping a cat’s spraying behavior. Buspar gives a cat that is feeling anxious more confidence. Another medication that can be used is prozac. I also have a spraying cat. I contacted Dr. Nicholas Dodman (a reknown animal behaviorist from Tuft’s) to help with my cat’s problem. Dr. Dodman prescribed prozac for my cat rather than buspirone because my cat was very territorial and did not need anymore confidence. The prozac, along with other behavior modifications, really helped get my cat’s spraying under control. Dr. Dodman offers programs called PETFAX and VETFAX where he and his associates will provide assistance with an animal’s behavioral problem. Your sister may want to check this out. Here’s some info on Dr. Dodman: http://www.tufts.edu/vet/facpages/dodman_n.html I found it extremely worthwhile. Good luck to your sister. I hope she can get her cat’s behavior under control. I know from experience how difficult this can be. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a prescription. I also located this site (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral modification. My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway diffuser," as she suggested. I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost anything for them. Thanks, MaryL
Response:
>5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW
Maybe this is what started his anxiety? Poor kitty Lauren =^..^= See my cats: http://www.picturetrail.com/mickey4paws/703043 To Error is Human, To be Purrfect is Feline
Response:
> >5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW > Maybe this is what started his anxiety? Poor kitty > Lauren
Yes, when I saw the list, I suddenly began to think about the declaw. My sister really adores these cats, and I don’t think she would have put them through the procedure if she had known of the problems it can cause. Years ago, I had plans to declaw one cat myself (long before I had done any reading on the subject). Fortunately, this cat was several months old when I adopted him, and he was a large cat; so the vet recommended against the declaw because he said the cat’s weight would cause more pain and a longer recuperation period than would have been true when he was a kitten. Later, I began to read about the dreadful effects and finally realized that this really is amputation. Furthermore, the cat trained easily to a scratching post. What a tragedy it would have been if I had subjected him to this procedure. I later adopted a wonderful little cat that had already been declawed (all four paws!!). She compensated in many ways, but her balance and agility never was the same as my cats who kept their claws; and I think that some of her litter box problems when she was elderly may have stemmed partly from no claws — that is, the pain of arthritis combined with no claws to protect her when she would try to scratch in the litter box. I don’t have any scientific evidence for this statement, but my observation leads me to believe that it is true.I bought the very softest litter for her that I could find, and that helped some. MaryL
Response:
> I have three cats and they all eat from the same bowl. They all eat dry food. I > suppose I could probably slip troublemaker some wet food with rescue remedy in > it, but I don’t know if he’d eat it, or if it would help. Are you particularly > convinced that rescue remedy works?
Nope. I’m not. I’ve tried it on several occasions and have seen absolutely no results from it. However, if you still want to give it a try, I’ve read that you can administer RR directly into the mouth (just a few drops), or rub some on the inside of the the ears, and I even had one person tell me she dilutes some in water, puts it into an atomizer, and mists it into to the air. She said it worked. >Gotcha. What about mixing it into his food? >Laura >– >>> I have one – he won’t touch it. He digs in the sink and howls if I turn off >the >> water. I’d rather leave the water on and have him drink all he wants than >try >> restricting his water access and have any kidney problems result from it.
CeCe — I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use. –Galileo Galilei
Response:
You may want to consult with an animal behaviorist (like Dr. Dodman) to determine what is the best course of treatment for your cat. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> While we’re talking about anti-anxiety medications, does anyone have a > suggestion for a cat that attacks when it realizes I’m leaving for work in the > morning? One vet suggested buspar, but the last thing this cat needs is more > confidence. He beats up on the other two as it is. I’ve tried Feliway and > Rescue Remedy. Feliway did nothing, and the Rescue Remedy is hard to administer > since he drinks water from a sink left running (so I can’t put it in his water > bowl) and putting the drops into his mouth is a huge battle. I gave up on that. > He’s been seen by four different vets and has had blood work done to rule out > any abnormalities.
Response:
> Amitriptyline is another anti-anxiety med and is not the same as prozac. > Prozac is also know as fluoxetine. As I said before, sometimes it takes > trial and error to find out what anti-anxiety med will work for your cat. > Sue
Thanks, Sue. I appreciate the information. I forwarded your other message (and also Gail’s) to my sister, and I’ll also send this on. I hope she can find a solution — she is desperate for one. MaryL
Response:
>the Rescue Remedy is hard to administer >since he drinks water from a sink left running (so I can’t put it in his >water >bowl) and putting the drops into his mouth is a huge battle. I gave up on >that.
Have you tried putting the Rescue Remedy on his fur and letting him lick it off? I know some people rub it into the outside of the cat’s ears and claim it can be absorbed that way, but I prefer putting on the fur and letting the cat lick it off. The thing about RR is that you need to give it consistently. You can’t just give it a few times and then stop. It will take a few weeks to see effects. Your cat may also need a more specific remedy. If you can figure out which one, you can buy them individually at most health food stores. You might want to check out these sites: http://www.catfaeries.com/ http://www.petsynergy.com/flower.html#C1 HTH, Lauren =^..^= See my cats: http://www.picturetrail.com/mickey4paws/703043 To Error is Human, To be Purrfect is Feline
Response:
I have a cat with whom I am just about at my wit’s end with in regards to his spraying. He also beats up on one of my hubby’s cats for no apparent reason. I have tried just about everything from A to Z including speaking with an animal behavorist. I’ve tried Feliway and Rescue Remedy – no luck. My cat seems to be immune to everything. I have asked the vet about drugs but she doesn’t want to go that route because of problems it may have health-wise. I guess there have been some kidney (or was it liver?) problems associated with either prozac or another kind but I can’t quite recall. If what you are saying is true, that Buspar has no long-term effects, than I will most definitely check into it. In fact I will call my vet tomorrow and get her opinion and write back. Thanks for the information and good luck to your sister. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
Amitriptyline is another anti-anxiety med and is not the same as prozac. Prozac is also know as fluoxetine. As I said before, sometimes it takes trial and error to find out what anti-anxiety med will work for your cat. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. > Thanks, > MaryL > Thanks for the information on Buspar. I have seen good information in > your responses to this NG and have also received personal e-mail. I > really do appreciate the help. > I checked with my sister, and Kelly is actually 5 years old (not 4). > She sent me this list of treatments that he has had: > DATE/TREATMENT > 4/26/1997First Vet visit > 4/26/1997FVRCP given elsewhere date? > 4/29/1997fecal exam > 5/12/1997fecal exam > 5/12/1997AMFOROL oral suspension > 5/15/1997AMFOROL oral suspension > 5/29/1997declaw anesthesia > 5/29/1997TELAZOL > 5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW > 5/29/1997FVRCP 2 OF 2 > 5/29/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA > 6/9/1997ANTIROBE AQUADROPS > 7/8/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA 2 OF 2 > 9/16/1997FLV BLOOD TEST > 9/16/1997CITE FELV PROB > 9/16/1997NEUTERED > 5/15/1998ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA > 2/5/1999URINALYSIS > 2/5/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS > 2/13/1999URINALYSIS > 2/15/1999UR FORMULA CAT FOOD BEGUN1/25/00 STOPPED > 2/27/1999URINALYSIS > 4/8/1999URINALYSIS > 4/9/1999ACEPROMAZINE 10 MG > 4/9/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS > 4/17/1999XRAY (LOOKING FOR BLOCKAGE??) > 4/17/1999CYSTOCENTESIS > 4/17/1999URINALYSIS > 4/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 > 5/8/1999URINALYSIS > 6/25/1999ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA > 6/25/1999AMITRIPTYLINE 10 MG IN USE UNTIL 4/00 > 12/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 > 1/17/2000ORBAX 22.7 MG GREEN > 2/11/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT > 2/14/2000ZENIQUIN 50 MG > 2/26/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT > Does this provide enough information for anyone to hazard an educated > guess as to why she has this continuing problem? Kelly was on > Amitriptyline (Prozac) from 6/99 to 4/00 when my sister gave up as it > was no longer effective. She went to a holistic vet who recommended an > herb but it didn’t have any effect. She can’t remember which herb was > recommnded (several years ago). > My sister is also interested in information about dosage for Buspar. I > sent her to the web site that Gail posted > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html), and that site said > to give 5 mg twice daily. However, her vet prescribed 5 mg daily in two > doses and that is all the prescription is for (total of 5mg daily, not > 10mg). Note: her vet also said that he is not familiar with this > medication. > Thanks for your help. > MaryL
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. > Thanks, > MaryL
Thanks for the information on Buspar. I have seen good information in your responses to this NG and have also received personal e-mail. I really do appreciate the help. I checked with my sister, and Kelly is actually 5 years old (not 4). She sent me this list of treatments that he has had: DATE/TREATMENT 4/26/1997First Vet visit 4/26/1997FVRCP given elsewhere date? 4/29/1997fecal exam 5/12/1997fecal exam 5/12/1997AMFOROL oral suspension 5/15/1997AMFOROL oral suspension 5/29/1997declaw anesthesia 5/29/1997TELAZOL 5/29/1997FRONT DECLAW 5/29/1997FVRCP 2 OF 2 5/29/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA 6/9/1997ANTIROBE AQUADROPS 7/8/1997FELINE LEUKEMIA 2 OF 2 9/16/1997FLV BLOOD TEST 9/16/1997CITE FELV PROB 9/16/1997NEUTERED 5/15/1998ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA 2/5/1999URINALYSIS 2/5/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS 2/13/1999URINALYSIS 2/15/1999UR FORMULA CAT FOOD BEGUN1/25/00 STOPPED 2/27/1999URINALYSIS 4/8/1999URINALYSIS 4/9/1999ACEPROMAZINE 10 MG 4/9/1999CLAVAMOX DROPS 4/17/1999XRAY (LOOKING FOR BLOCKAGE??) 4/17/1999CYSTOCENTESIS 4/17/1999URINALYSIS 4/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 5/8/1999URINALYSIS 6/25/1999ANNUAL DRCP & LEUKEMIA 6/25/1999AMITRIPTYLINE 10 MG IN USE UNTIL 4/00 12/17/1999BAYTRIL 60 1/17/2000ORBAX 22.7 MG GREEN 2/11/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT 2/14/2000ZENIQUIN 50 MG 2/26/2000HEMALERT URINARY BLOOD DETECT Does this provide enough information for anyone to hazard an educated guess as to why she has this continuing problem? Kelly was on Amitriptyline (Prozac) from 6/99 to 4/00 when my sister gave up as it was no longer effective. She went to a holistic vet who recommended an herb but it didn’t have any effect. She can’t remember which herb was recommnded (several years ago). My sister is also interested in information about dosage for Buspar. I sent her to the web site that Gail posted (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html), and that site said to give 5 mg twice daily. However, her vet prescribed 5 mg daily in two doses and that is all the prescription is for (total of 5mg daily, not 10mg). Note: her vet also said that he is not familiar with this medication. Thanks for your help. MaryL
Response:
While we’re talking about anti-anxiety medications, does anyone have a suggestion for a cat that attacks when it realizes I’m leaving for work in the morning? One vet suggested buspar, but the last thing this cat needs is more confidence. He beats up on the other two as it is. I’ve tried Feliway and Rescue Remedy. Feliway did nothing, and the Rescue Remedy is hard to administer since he drinks water from a sink left running (so I can’t put it in his water bowl) and putting the drops into his mouth is a huge battle. I gave up on that. He’s been seen by four different vets and has had blood work done to rule out any abnormalities.
Response:
I wanted to add that there are several different anti-anxiety meds available to help stop a cat from spraying. You have to try and determine why your cat is spraying and decide what med may help the most. Sometimes it takes trial and error to find out what works. Good luck. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Buspar can be helpful in stopping a cat’s spraying behavior. Buspar gives a > cat that is feeling anxious more confidence. Another medication that can be > used is prozac. I also have a spraying cat. I contacted Dr. Nicholas > Dodman (a reknown animal behaviorist from Tuft’s) to help with my cat’s > problem. Dr. Dodman prescribed prozac for my cat rather than buspirone > because my cat was very territorial and did not need anymore confidence. > The prozac, along with other behavior modifications, really helped get my > cat’s spraying under control. > Dr. Dodman offers programs called PETFAX and VETFAX where he and his > associates will provide assistance with an animal’s behavioral problem. > Your sister may want to check this out. Here’s some info on Dr. Dodman: > http://www.tufts.edu/vet/facpages/dodman_n.html I found it extremely > worthwhile. > Good luck to your sister. I hope she can get her cat’s behavior under > control. I know from experience how difficult this can be. > Sue > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
I have one – he won’t touch it. He digs in the sink and howls if I turn off the water. I’d rather leave the water on and have him drink all he wants than try restricting his water access and have any kidney problems result from it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Have you thought about getting a Drinkwell fountain and leaving the >filter out? Might work. >Laura
Response:
>While we’re talking about anti-anxiety >medications, does anyone have a >suggestion for a cat that attacks when it >realizes I’m leaving for work in the >morning?
Could you please give a detailed description of what happens (before, during and after)? Also, a detailed description of what happens when he beats up on the other cats? There may be a solution to this that won’t require medication. Megan "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu’s Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22
Response:
I have three cats and they all eat from the same bowl. They all eat dry food. I suppose I could probably slip troublemaker some wet food with rescue remedy in it, but I don’t know if he’d eat it, or if it would help. Are you particularly convinced that rescue remedy works? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Gotcha. What about mixing it into his food? >Laura >– >> I have one – he won’t touch it. He digs in the sink and howls if I turn off >the > water. I’d rather leave the water on and have him drink all he wants than >try > restricting his water access and have any kidney problems result from it.
Response:
I’ve posted the whole saga before, and I’ve consulted 4 different vets about it. Everyone says they’ve never seen a cat react this way, only dogs. He has separation anxiety. When I get ready to leave in the morning I have to walk backwards towards the door talking calmly to my cat or else he’ll throw himself at my heels biting and clawing. Sometimes I literally run out the door. I can tell when he’s going to do it because he starts creeping up on me like he would an animal he’s stalking for prey, then he tilts his head sideways preparing to bite. If he does manage to bite he’ll continue to do it until I can get away from him. There have been times I’ve had to run into the bathroom and shut the door, and I’ve had wounds that probably should have had stitches. He’s an indoor kitty with plenty of things to do indoors. It’s not safe for him to go outside because of the wildlife in the area we live. The biting started when he was about 1 year old, when I started working fulltime. I always come home during lunch to visit him, so I don’t think he’s that lonely. When this behaviour started he was the only cat in the household. I got a second cat to try to keep him company, but that one is scared to death of him. I don’t blame her. She’s not social towards cats, so usually just leaves him alone or runs from him. A year ago I got a third cat, not by choice – someone gave me a 3 week old kitten that was found on the railroad tracks. I bottle-raised that one and introduced it to the aggressive male when he was 6 months old. They are great buddies and play very rough together. I thought maybe rough play would curb his need to be aggressive with me, but it didn’t. All the cats in the household are fixed. Like I said in another post, he’s had blood work done to rule out any chemical abnormalities. He also attacks if he’s yelled at for doing something bad, or if I use a squirt bottle on him. Sometimes he gets mad even when I disappear into the shower. He isn’t very clingy to me when I’m home, but does like to sleep on the bed with me. None of the vets I’ve taken him to have had any answers. They all say they’ve never seen a cat like this, and that he’s obviously a smart one. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Could you please give a detailed description of what happens (before, >during and after)? Also, a detailed description of what happens when he >beats up on the other cats? There may be a solution to this that won’t >require medication. >While we’re talking about anti-anxiety >medications, does anyone have a >suggestion for a cat that attacks when it >realizes I’m leaving for work in the >morning?
Response:
They all eat dry food. I don’t think I could mix it into dry food very easily without making a mess. I did try putting diluted rescue remedy in a spray bottle and misting it onto his bedding (suggested by someone in the newsgroups) but that didn’t seem to have any effect. Feeding wet food is not an option. One of the cats won’t eat any sort of wet food, and besides it makes the litterbox smell horribly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Nope, I just got the impression that you were saying it had worked >for you. I’ve not had occasion to use it. However, if it does work, I >would think that it wouldn’t harm the other cats, so mixing it into >the food might be a simple thing to try. >Laura > I have three cats and they all eat from the same bowl. They all eat dry >food. I > suppose I could probably slip troublemaker some wet food with rescue remedy >in > it, but I don’t know if he’d eat it, or if it would help. Are you >particularly > convince
Response:
I have a cat that also sprayed. He is neutered and has no medical problems. I tried Feliway and also an anti-depressant medication. Buspar was the one that helped him stop the spraying. It is definitely worth trying and can be used long term. Gail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
Buspar can be helpful in stopping a cat’s spraying behavior. Buspar gives a cat that is feeling anxious more confidence. Another medication that can be used is prozac. I also have a spraying cat. I contacted Dr. Nicholas Dodman (a reknown animal behaviorist from Tuft’s) to help with my cat’s problem. Dr. Dodman prescribed prozac for my cat rather than buspirone because my cat was very territorial and did not need anymore confidence. The prozac, along with other behavior modifications, really helped get my cat’s spraying under control. Dr. Dodman offers programs called PETFAX and VETFAX where he and his associates will provide assistance with an animal’s behavioral problem. Your sister may want to check this out. Here’s some info on Dr. Dodman: http://www.tufts.edu/vet/facpages/dodman_n.html I found it extremely worthwhile. Good luck to your sister. I hope she can get her cat’s behavior under control. I know from experience how difficult this can be. Sue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug > sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me > and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is > extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" > care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to > her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a > prescription. I also located this site > (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but > I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. > Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all > spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also > has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an > animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old > male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all > ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what > makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a > behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any > other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now > literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of > her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she > removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find > a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 > different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also > took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has > tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral > modification. > My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of > you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so > that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this > medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we > would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned > "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the > liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice > that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going > to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway > diffuser," as she suggested. > I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives > 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to > be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these > are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost > anything for them. > Thanks, > MaryL
Response:
Are any of you familiar with Buspirone, an anxiety-reducing drug sometimes used to control spraying in cats? My sister just e-mailed me and asked me to question my vet about it (which I intend to do — he is extremely willing to discuss care over the phone, even "long-distance" care for my sister’s cats, 1200 miles away). She has already talked to her vet. He is not familiar with Buspirone but is willing to give her a prescription. I also located this site (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/buspirone.html) on the Internet, but I would like to locate as much information for her as I can. Here’s some of the history: she has three indoor cats (all spayed/neutered). One female is approximately 8 years old. She also has a male and female (litter-mates) that she adopted as kittens from an animal shelter. They are not approximately 4 years old. The 4-year-old male is the problem. He is an absolutely wonderful cat in almost all ways — friendly, loving, playful, seems totally relaxed. That is what makes his problem with spraying so puzzling. This seems to be a behavioral problem, but he does not show behavioral problems in any other way. He gets lots of love and attention, but her house now literally reeks of cat urine. She is in the process of removing all of her carpet and padding, and she is scrubbing the floor underneath as she removes the carpet (a great deal of work!). She has been trying to find a solution for the last 3 years. Kelly (the cat) has been seen by 3 different veterinarians, and they have not found any problems. She also took him to a holistic veterinarian/behavioralist. Nothing she has tried has worked, including medication and attempts at behavioral modification. My sister truly loves this cat, and she is at her wits’ end. Can any of you suggest anything else? She read about Buspirone on the Internet, so that is the reason I am also specifically asking for information on this medication. The web site I checked indicated no side effects, but we would like to verify this. Someone on this newsgroup also mentioned "Electrical Feliway." My sister would be interested (she has tried the liquid-spray version of Feliway, with little or no result). I notice that Claire has responded to my request about a source, and I am going to try to follow up on her information (including a search for "Feliway diffuser," as she suggested. I apologize for this long, rather rambling message. My sister lives 1200 miles away, so I am not as clear on some details as I would like to be. We will be grateful for any help you can give us. As I said, these are truly loved cats; and my sister would be willing to do almost anything for them. Thanks, MaryL
Response:
October 7, 2002
Question:
On a lighter note, if Freud had operated on the woman’s fingers instead he might have had a better result in stopping her from masturbating 
hohohoho…(just in case, that was meant as a joke and not to be taken seriously – before I get battered by a deluge of ‘immoral surgery’ flames!) FF — "Life in the fast lane Surely make you lose your mind Life in the fast lane, everything all the time" – The Eagles
Response:
> >religious practitioners but not as medical practitioners. They should >be forced to admit to themselves and to the world that they reject >science and objective standards, and they should never be allowed to >sell the drugs they prescribe [9].
I disagree with this position paper (posted by Hopper). Just a couple points spring to my mind to contest the idea that the allopathic medicine dominant in this country only since the 1940s is more "scientific" and incomparably superior to the so-called "new age"medicine that is performed here and in the rest of the world. Consider first the "placebo effect". This and the "double blind" test format are the philosophical bedrock of current western medicine. How many medicines are approved each year by the FDA for which the net observed therapeutic benefits (minus placebo) are are less than that of the placebo effect itself? Most, I would guess. But what is known WITHIN our allopathic system about this mysterious and all-powerful placebo effect — the defacto baseline for allopathic, ahem, cures? Could we say zero? Well, that cant be the case. Every FDA-sanctioned study "proves" something about the "placebo" and the various diseases it "effects". But again, what do we choose to study? My point is to question that superior "science" is at work here. Other healing modalities DO have integrated theories that address the roles of belief, energy and homeostasis (internal healing mechanisms). Why doesn’t allopathy? Personally, I am a proponent of meditation, the practice of change through careful attention to subtle mental, emotional and physical processes. Allopathy is not necessarily a "superior" science. It is merely a "science" and one that has been blinded to its own roots. To prove my point about science, I "tested" my theory by doing a quick search for "placebo effect" to see what currently is "known" within the field. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42930-2002May6.html Against Depression, a Sugar Pill Is Hard to Beat Placebos Improve Mood, Change Brain Chemistry in Majority of Trials of Antidepressants By Shankar Vedantam Washington Post Staff Writer Tuesday, May 7, 2002; Page A01 After thousands of studies, hundreds of millions of prescriptions and tens of billions of dollars in sales, two things are certain about pills that treat depression: Antidepressants like Prozac, Paxil and Zoloft work. And so do sugar pills. A new analysis has found that in the majority of trials conducted by drug companies in recent decades, sugar pills have done as well as — or better than — antidepressants. Companies have had to conduct numerous trials to get two that show a positive result, which is the Food and Drug Administration’s minimum for approval. What’s more, the sugar pills, or placebos, cause profound changes in the same areas of the brain affected by the medicines, according to research published last week. …. The article continues (see link) what was interesting to me was the discussion offered by various md’s regarding these on-going findings: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&th=d9b8db605e1acb7… Objectively Yours, Josh
Response:
> Consider first the "placebo effect". This and the "double blind" test > format are the philosophical bedrock of current western medicine. How > many medicines are approved each year by the FDA for which the net > observed therapeutic benefits (minus placebo) are are less than that > of the placebo effect itself? Most, I would guess.
By that, I presume, you believe the sugar pill to be an absence of treatment? > Personally, I am a proponent of meditation, the practice of change > through careful attention to subtle mental, emotional and physical > processes.
A very useful process. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Allopathy is not necessarily a "superior" science. It is merely a > "science" and one that has been blinded to its own roots. > To prove my point about science, I "tested" my theory by doing a quick > search for "placebo effect" to see what currently is "known" within > the field. > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42930-2002May6.html > Against Depression, a Sugar Pill Is Hard to Beat > Placebos Improve Mood, Change Brain Chemistry > in Majority of Trials of Antidepressants > By Shankar Vedantam > Washington Post Staff Writer > Tuesday, May 7, 2002; Page A01 > After thousands of studies, hundreds of millions of prescriptions > and tens of billions of dollars in sales, two things are certain > about pills that treat depression: Antidepressants like Prozac, > Paxil and Zoloft work. And so do sugar pills. > A new analysis has found that in the majority of trials conducted by > drug companies in recent decades, sugar pills have done as well as > — or better than — antidepressants. Companies have had to conduct > numerous trials to get two that show a positive result, which is the > Food and Drug Administration’s minimum for approval.
This statement is taken so out of context, it no longer has any validity. Placebo groups in clinical trials are not untreated. This is a common misconception among both medical practitioners and laypeople, alike. If you’ve ever taken part in a clinical study (I have), you know this already. Seattle psychiatrist Arif Khan found that in 52% of the trials, the effect of the drug could not be distinguished from the placebo. http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/research/story/0,9865,740721,0… Here’s what the author, indirectly referred to by the Post, said: From http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p000429.html, written by Khan himself: "Altogether, 8,731 depressed patients participated in 45 pivotal clinical trials. Of these, 4,510 were assigned to the investigational antidepressants, 1,416 to established antidepressants (imipramine [Tofranil], amitriptyline [Elavil, Endep] or trazodone [Desyrel]) and 2,805 to placebo. Statistical analysis indicated that all of the antidepressants were significantly superior to placebo in decreasing the HAM-D score total. Of note was the positive relationship between duration of clinical trial and reduction of symptoms: the longer the duration of the clinical trial, the greater the decrease in depressive symptoms, regardless of treatment. Among the placebo-treated patients, the reduction in mean total HAM-D scores was 24.7% in four-week trials, 31.5% in five-week trials, 30.5% in six-week trials and 36.1% in eight-week trials. Correspondingly, the reduction with traditional antidepressants was 28.2% in four-week trials, 44% in six-week trials and 48.1% in eight-week trials. The reduction with investigational antidepressants was 40% in four-week trials, 40.5% in five-week trials, 40.6% in six-week trials and 43.9% in eight-week trials (Khan et al., in press). " **Note this next paragraph, please. Placebo subjects are not untreated.** "The less-than-impressive results in these and other studies also calls to mind the fact that patients assigned to placebo treatment in clinical trials are not "getting nothing." The capsule they receive is pharmacologically inert but hardly inert with respect to its symbolic value and its power as a conditioned stimulus. In addition, placebo-treated patients receive all of the commonly employed treatment techniques: a thorough evaluation; an explanation for their distress; an expert healer; a plausible treatment; expectation of improvement; a healer’s commitment, enthusiasm and positive regard; and an opportunity to verbalize their distress. " He goes on to include a very important warning about the interpretation of his findings: "A cautionary note is indicated about the generalization of these data to the clinical management of depressed patients. The less-than-impressive difference between drug and placebo in this and other studies of clinical trials does not speak directly to the effectiveness of antidepressants in clinical practice. Participants in antidepressant clinical trials are a highly select group and are not representative of the general population of depressed patients. They are not actively suicidal, they are almost always outpatients who are moderately rather than severely or mildly depressed, and they are free of comorbid physical or psychiatric illness. They are likely to have a higher placebo response rate than more severely ill depressed patients. " "Furthermore, the primary aim of these studies is not to assess the optimal effect of antidepressants, but rather to rapidly assess efficacy of new drugs so they can be brought to the market. Therefore, dose, duration and diagnosis in clinical trials are not necessarily ideally suited to identify the optimal effects of antidepressants. Accordingly, clinical trials may identify the lower bound of the effect size compared to placebo. "
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’m talking mood altering drugs that shrinks prescribe. > Drugs that can >only be tested subjectively by listening to subjective > reports of >patients. > There have been many successful attempts to quantify the > mental state of patients. There are scores for depression, > psychosis, and more. I once took the MMPI which was good > enough for the government to conclude I needed help. >All shrink drugs are suspect because not one single > chemical >imbalance has ever been identified. > What a load of crap. SSRI’s are specifically targeted > towards seretonin imbalances,
They are targetted toward presynaptic serotonin receptors–blocking uptake. It’s not an issue of an "imbalance" of anything. The individual could have exactly as much HT5 that they are supposed to but for some reason the post synaptic receptors are not working as efficiently as they used to. — No medicine is more valuable, none more efficacious, none better suited to the cure of all our temporal ills than a friend to whom we may turn for consolation in time of trouble, and with whom we may share our happiness in time of joy. Saint Ailred of Rivaulx (1109 – 1166) Historian and abbot http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm
Response:
HUH?
Response:
> I’m talking mood altering drugs that shrinks prescribe. Drugs that can > only be tested subjectively by listening to subjective reports of > patients.
you don’t get out much do you. The diagnostic process involves more than the subjective report of the patient. — No medicine is more valuable, none more efficacious, none better suited to the cure of all our temporal ills than a friend to whom we may turn for consolation in time of trouble, and with whom we may share our happiness in time of joy. Saint Ailred of Rivaulx (1109 – 1166) Historian and abbot http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm
Response:
> I’m talking mood altering drugs that shrinks prescribe. Drugs that can > only be tested subjectively by listening to subjective reports of > patients.
There have been many successful attempts to quantify the mental state of patients. There are scores for depression, psychosis, and more. I once took the MMPI which was good enough for the government to conclude I needed help. > All shrink drugs are suspect because not one single chemical > imbalance has ever been identified.
What a load of crap. SSRI’s are specifically targeted towards seretonin imbalances, and novel antipsychotics tend to focus around dopamine. These are only two examples of identified chemical imbalances. > Drug companies do manage to beat > sugar pills but after numerous tries and by fixing the studies. There > is no double-blinding because patients recognize the taste and > side-effects of meds. Most important, shrink drugs do not make common > sense. How can you bathe a complex organ like the brain in one > chemical and hope to rewire the brain to improve complex
behaviour. Drugs alone can’t do it you’re probably right, but they are needed in some cases. > It > has always been easy to sedate or elevate the mood of the brain. The > problem is that this kind of thing boomerangs back. The fact is that > psychiatry is still in the primitive age and they should not be giving > out these chemicals when there is no clear evidence that they help > anyone more than sugar pills do.
There is plenty of evidence, but you are too blind to see it. > The people that are protesting about these drugs have experienced them > and know they don’t work. History shows that the majority of people > will fall for a placebo no matter how ludicrous it is. Only a few > cynics ever protest. I think you should be listening to
these cynics. I was a cynic once myself, but that was before I relented and took medications. Medications are not placebos and without them I would probably be either dead, from suicide, or homeless. Before I was on my medications, I only earned a 3.0 GPA and later dropped out. After I was on them, I earned a 3.93 GPA and actually graduated. I think that’s a pretty significant result, at least in my eyes. No I wouldn’t qualify it totally as proof, but nothing would be proof to you, not even scientific studies, because you have become blinded by your cynicism. Did you ever think that perhaps some people are beyond what little help these drugs can provide? And you can always blame incompitent doctors if you like. However, I still assert that there are plenty of good medications out there, and that they are not placebos, and claiming they are the equivalent of sugar pills is stupid logic in my opinion. Just ask some of the other people in this newsgroup.
Response:
> Nothing has changed in Psychiatry since Freud. They are no closer to > understanding the brain. They still have not identified a single > chemical imbalance. They are doing the equivalent of pouring dangerous > chemicals on the brain to see what happens. The studies are conducted > by the drug companies and the drugs often still don’t beat a sugar > pill. The companies can conduct study after study on a drug until they > get the result they need to satisfy FDA.
I agree that the approval process is screwed up, but the FDA does a pretty good job with the regulations that it uses. The drug companies are only in it for profit, and have often steamrollered consumers for that very goal. Yet, at the same time, some very good drugs have come out as a result of the system. Trying to place all drugs in the same category doesn’t do them justice. Without a doctor, most medications, whether they are for mental health or regular health, can be dangerous. Trying to single out brain chemical medications and saying they should be banned is like saying all people of a certain race should be eliminated because some of them give a bad example. It’s ironic that some of the people who have flooded this group being against medications have obviously needed to be on them themselves.
Response:
I guess freud must have been about 120 years ahead of his time, you must then admit he was a genius. I think his therapy worked and the woman no longer was self erotic. Go Sigmund.!
Response:
I understand Freud was completely wrong as his subjects were exclusively wealthy, white, young women with too much time and not enough to do. — "All people are unique, only some people are a lot more unique than the rest" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I guess freud must have been about 120 years ahead of his time, you must > then admit he was a genius. I think his therapy worked and the woman no > longer was self erotic. Go Sigmund.!
Response:
> Bullshit.. nothing has been proved.. psychiatry still has no idea what role dapamine plays > in psychosis..
When are you going to learn that "proved" and "have no idea" are not synonymous? — No medicine is more valuable, none more efficacious, none better suited to the cure of all our temporal ills than a friend to whom we may turn for consolation in time of trouble, and with whom we may share our happiness in time of joy. Saint Ailred of Rivaulx (1109 – 1166) Historian and abbot http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm
Response:
says… > When are you going to learn that "proved" and "have no idea" are not > synonymous?
He said ’nothing had been proved’ – not ‘proved’. When are you going to learn how to read?
Response:
> says… >When are you going to learn that "proved" and "have no idea" are not >synonymous? > He said ’nothing had been proved’ – not ‘proved’.
Read it again. s/he/it is putting "proof" at the same level as "hypothesis." "nothing has been proved.. psychiatry still has no idea what role dapamine plays " There are lots of ideas of how neurotransmitters affect brain functioning and most of those ideas have supporting evidence (and note the difference between "support" and "prove." > When are you going to learn how to read?
– No medicine is more valuable, none more efficacious, none better suited to the cure of all our temporal ills than a friend to whom we may turn for consolation in time of trouble, and with whom we may share our happiness in time of joy. Saint Ailred of Rivaulx (1109 – 1166) Historian and abbot http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm
Response:
all just hypothsis.. still stalking Irene Mark? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> says… >>When are you going to learn that "proved" and "have no idea" are not >>synonymous? > He said ’nothing had been proved’ – not ‘proved’. >Read it again. >s/he/it is putting "proof" at the same level as "hypothesis." >"nothing has been proved.. psychiatry still has no idea what role >dapamine plays " >There are lots of ideas of how neurotransmitters affect brain >functioning and most of those ideas have supporting evidence (and note >the difference between "support" and "prove." > When are you going to learn how to read?
– C/S/X Consumer/Survivor/Ex-Patient; a progressive term, in that one begins with the illusion of being a "consumer," is subjected to one or more of the horrors of psychiatric/therapeutic abuse and becomes a "survivor" (if he’s lucky), and quickly realizes that the best way in which to extend his survival and avoid a repetition of the nightmare is to remain permanently an "EX-Patient."
Response:
> all just hypothsis..
who ever said they were anything but? > still stalking Irene Mark?
Did it ever occur to you that there was more than one Mark in the Universe? Not that the other Mark did any stalking. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>says… >>>When are you going to learn that "proved" and "have no idea" are not >>>synonymous? >>He said ’nothing had been proved’ – not ‘proved’. >Read it again. >s/he/it is putting "proof" at the same level as "hypothesis." >"nothing has been proved.. psychiatry still has no idea what role >dapamine plays " >There are lots of ideas of how neurotransmitters affect brain >functioning and most of those ideas have supporting evidence (and note >the difference between "support" and "prove." >>When are you going to learn how to read? > — > C/S/X > Consumer/Survivor/Ex-Patient; a progressive term, in that one begins with the illusion of > being a "consumer," is subjected to one or more of the horrors of psychiatric/therapeutic > abuse and becomes a "survivor" (if he’s lucky), and quickly realizes that the best way in > which to extend his survival and avoid a repetition of the nightmare is to remain > permanently an "EX-Patient."
– No medicine is more valuable, none more efficacious, none better suited to the cure of all our temporal ills than a friend to whom we may turn for consolation in time of trouble, and with whom we may share our happiness in time of joy. Saint Ailred of Rivaulx (1109 – 1166) Historian and abbot http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Nothing has changed in Psychiatry since Freud. They are no > closer to > understanding the brain. They still have not identified a > single > chemical imbalance. They are doing the equivalent of > pouring dangerous > chemicals on the brain to see what happens. The studies > are conducted > by the drug companies and the drugs often still don’t beat > a sugar > pill. The companies can conduct study after study on a > drug until they > get the result they need to satisfy FDA. > I agree that the approval process is screwed up, but the FDA > does a pretty good job with the regulations that it uses. > The drug companies are only in it for profit, and have often > steamrollered consumers for that very goal. Yet, at the > same time, some very good drugs have come out as a result of > the system. Trying to place all drugs in the same category > doesn’t do them justice. > Without a doctor, most medications, whether they are for > mental health or regular health, can be dangerous. Trying > to single out brain chemical medications and saying they > should be banned is like saying all people of a certain race > should be eliminated because some of them give a bad > example. > It’s ironic that some of the people who have flooded this > group being against medications have obviously needed to be > on them themselves.
I’m talking mood altering drugs that shrinks prescribe. Drugs that can only be tested subjectively by listening to subjective reports of patients. All shrink drugs are suspect because not one single chemical imbalance has ever been identified. Drug companies do manage to beat sugar pills but after numerous tries and by fixing the studies. There is no double-blinding because patients recognize the taste and side-effects of meds. Most important, shrink drugs do not make common sense. How can you bathe a complex organ like the brain in one chemical and hope to rewire the brain to improve complex behaviour. It has always been easy to sedate or elevate the mood of the brain. The problem is that this kind of thing boomerangs back. The fact is that psychiatry is still in the primitive age and they should not be giving out these chemicals when there is no clear evidence that they help anyone more than sugar pills do. The people that are protesting about these drugs have experienced them and know they don’t work. History shows that the majority of people will fall for a placebo no matter how ludicrous it is. Only a few cynics ever protest. I think you should be listening to these cynics.
Response:
Bullshit.. nothing has been proved.. psychiatry still has no idea what role dapamine plays in psychosis.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Nothing has changed in Psychiatry since Freud. They are no closer to > understanding the brain. >really? tell that to all the neurosugeans who are removing tumors with >precision > They still have not identified a single chemical imbalance. >but what they have done is identified specific neurotransmitters and >identified how those neurotransmitters affect out functioning. We have >done functional imaging studies that have demonstrated that people with >disorder X have underactivation or overactivation of particular parts of >the brain–parts that are known to respond to particular neurotransmitters. >just because you don’t want to believe it, doesnt’ make it false.
Response:
XXY is a real thing that can be tested for. Been out of jail long? Most of you end up in jail.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I must be in "disagree mode". >I can tell you "banhappinesspills" that the XXY brain has been studied and >structural differnces have be en noted in it, and I have an XXY brain. I >don’t particularly give a damn if the exact cause and reason for treatment >succeeding is 100% known or 0% known, so long as I can do what I want to do >without causing harm to anyone else, I’m happy. I’m sure I won’t be happy >and I know I was never happy, without my personality altering medication. >See I don’t care about why it works only that it works. If it didn’t work, >as marijuana doen’t work and alcohol doesn’t work I wouldn’t take it, as I >don’t marijuana and alcohol. Of couirse to know those don’t work I had to >give them a decent trail. :-) I can be very content on ‘happy – baccy’ and >’fire water’, but neither solves my shitty temper, piss poor outlook on life >and flambouyant over the top personality, in fact they actually make these >worse as I constantly needed to increase my dosage to get the required >effect. On alcohol ist’s very easy to be ‘over the limit’ on a very small >volume. I have been taking the ‘happypills" for over two years without >needing to alter the dosage at all.
Response:
Nothing has changed in Psychiatry since Freud. They are no closer to understanding the brain. They still have not identified a single chemical imbalance. They are doing the equivalent of pouring dangerous chemicals on the brain to see what happens. The studies are conducted by the drug companies and the drugs often still don’t beat a sugar pill. The companies can conduct study after study on a drug until they get the result they need to satisfy FDA. Btw, the woman almost died of infection since he did not clean the instruments.
Response:
He was high on cocaine and opium at the time.
Response:
> Nothing has changed in Psychiatry since Freud. They are no closer to > understanding the brain.
really? tell that to all the neurosugeans who are removing tumors with precision > They still have not identified a single chemical imbalance.
but what they have done is identified specific neurotransmitters and identified how those neurotransmitters affect out functioning. We have done functional imaging studies that have demonstrated that people with disorder X have underactivation or overactivation of particular parts of the brain–parts that are known to respond to particular neurotransmitters. just because you don’t want to believe it, doesnt’ make it false. — No medicine is more valuable, none more efficacious, none better suited to the cure of all our temporal ills than a friend to whom we may turn for consolation in time of trouble, and with whom we may share our happiness in time of joy. Saint Ailred of Rivaulx (1109 – 1166) Historian and abbot http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm
Response:
> done functional imaging studies that have demonstrated that people with > disorder X have underactivation or overactivation of particular parts of > the brain–parts that are known to respond to particular
neurotransmitters. my experience of pdocs is they first try something heavy like haleperidol to try and hammer it out of you then guess what meds you should be taking longterm, then change perscription if the patient complains.
Response:
I must be in "disagree mode". I can tell you "banhappinesspills" that the XXY brain has been studied and structural differnces have be en noted in it, and I have an XXY brain. I don’t particularly give a damn if the exact cause and reason for treatment succeeding is 100% known or 0% known, so long as I can do what I want to do without causing harm to anyone else, I’m happy. I’m sure I won’t be happy and I know I was never happy, without my personality altering medication. See I don’t care about why it works only that it works. If it didn’t work, as marijuana doen’t work and alcohol doesn’t work I wouldn’t take it, as I don’t marijuana and alcohol. Of couirse to know those don’t work I had to give them a decent trail. :-) I can be very content on ‘happy – baccy’ and ‘fire water’, but neither solves my shitty temper, piss poor outlook on life and flambouyant over the top personality, in fact they actually make these worse as I constantly needed to increase my dosage to get the required effect. On alcohol ist’s very easy to be ‘over the limit’ on a very small volume. I have been taking the ‘happypills" for over two years without needing to alter the dosage at all. — "All people are unique, only some people are a lot more unique than the rest"
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Nothing has changed in Psychiatry since Freud. They are no closer to > understanding the brain. They still have not identified a single > chemical imbalance. They are doing the equivalent of pouring dangerous > chemicals on the brain to see what happens. The studies are conducted > by the drug companies and the drugs often still don’t beat a sugar > pill. The companies can conduct study after study on a drug until they > get the result they need to satisfy FDA. > Btw, the woman almost died of infection since he did not clean the > instruments.
Response:
psychiatry is quackery. Group Health Cooperative of Puget Sound psychiatrists destroyed my life with their drugz and quack diagnosis.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Nothing has changed in Psychiatry since Freud. They are no closer to >understanding the brain. They still have not identified a single >chemical imbalance. They are doing the equivalent of pouring dangerous >chemicals on the brain to see what happens. The studies are conducted >by the drug companies and the drugs often still don’t beat a sugar >pill. The companies can conduct study after study on a drug until they >get the result they need to satisfy FDA. >Btw, the woman almost died of infection since he did not clean the >instruments.
Response:
– DSM IV is the fabrication upon which psychiatry seeks acceptance by medicine in general. Insiders know it is more a political than scientific document. To its credit it says so –Loren R. Mosher, M.D. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Nothing has changed in Psychiatry since Freud. They are no closer to >understanding the brain. They still have not identified a single >chemical imbalance. They are doing the equivalent of pouring dangerous >chemicals on the brain to see what happens. The studies are conducted >by the drug companies and the drugs often still don’t beat a sugar >pill. The companies can conduct study after study on a drug until they >get the result they need to satisfy FDA. >Btw, the woman almost died of infection since he did not clean the >instruments. >The problem with that is modern psychiatry recognizes that as bogus. >When one does initial experimental ideas , one doesnt know if they >will hold up in the long run. But the point is , under the more formal >scientific field , ideas are tested and discarded even as flawed and >full of errors as it is. > Unfortunately people like are of the same ilk , pushing fraudulent >hokey quack natural and alternative points of view , perhaps even a >raving mad scientologist , in which you except ideas that rival Freuds >discarded theories in perpetuity , subject them to no testing and >demand absolutely no criteria for establishing their worth except on >the basis of faith in some trendy point of view now popular. Thats >the difference. >For every one freud – there must have been a million people selling >electricty , magnetism, hypnosis, natural living , diet — as a >cure-all and still do. >Be Wary of "Alternative" Health Methods >Stephen Barrett, M.D. >"Alternative medicine" has become the politically correct term for >questionable practices formerly labeled quack and fraudulent. During >the past few years, most media reports have contained no critical >evaluation and have featured the views of proponents and their >satisfied clients. >Science versus Vitalism >Science assumes that in order to develop a coherent body of knowledge, >it is necessary to assume that supernatural powers do not exist or, if >they do exist, they do not interfere. If such interference were >possible, then all attempts at controlled experimentation would be >either impossible or pointless. >Many "alternative" approaches are rooted in vitalism, the concept that >bodily functions are due to a vital principle or "life force" distinct >from the physical forces explainable by the laws of physics and >chemistry and detectable by scientific instrumentation. Practitioners >whose methods are based on vitalistic philosophy maintain that >diseases should be treated by "stimulating the body’s ability to heal >itself" rather than by "treating symptoms." Homeopaths, for example, >claim that illness is due to a disturbance of the body’s "vital >force," which they can correct with special remedies, while many >acupuncturists claim that disease is due to imbalance in the flow of >"life energy" (chi or Qi), which they can balance by twirling needles >in the skin. Many chiropractors claim to assist the body’s "Innate >Intelligence" by adjusting the patient’s spine. Naturopaths speak of >"Vis Medicatrix Naturae." Ayurvedic physicians refer to "prana." And >so on. The "energies" postulated by vitalists cannot be measured by >scientific methods. >Although vitalists often pretend to be scientific, they really reject >the scientific method with its basic assumptions of material reality, >mechanisms of cause and effect, and testability of hypotheses. They >regard personal experience, subjective judgment, and emotional >satisfaction as preferable to objectivity and hard evidence. >Some "alternative" proponents are physicians who have strayed from >scientific thought. The factors that motivate them can include >delusional thinking, misinterpretation of personal experience, >financial considerations, and pleasure derived from notoriety and/or >patient adulation. >Overclaim and Puffery >"Alternative" promoters often claim that their approach promotes >general health and is cost-effective against chronic health problems. >In a recent article, for example, the American Holistic Association’s >president claimed that various "basic healthy habits" would "tap a >well-spring of physical energy experienced as a state of relaxed >vitality." [7] In addition to exercising, eating a nutritious diet, >and getting sufficient sleep, the list includes abdominal breathing; >taking "a full complement of antioxidants and supplements; and >"enhancing the body’s ability to receive and generate bioenergy" >through regular acupuncture treatments, acupressure, healing touch, >craniosacral therapy, qigong, and several other nonstandard >modalities. As far as I know, there is no published evidence that >"alternative" practitioners are more effective than mainstream >physicians in persuading their patients to improve their lifestyle. >Nor have any vitalistic approaches been proven effective or >cost-effective against any disease. >National Council Against Health Fraud president William T. Jarvis, >Ph.D., has noted: >Some techniques referred to as "alternative" may be appropriately used >as part of the art of patient care. Relaxation techniques and massage >are examples. But procedures linked to belief systems that reject >science itself have no place in responsible medicine. Useless >procedures don’t add to the outcome, just to the overhead. >Many news reports have exaggerated the significance of the National >Institutes of Health (NIH)’s Office of Alternative Medicine (OAM). >Creation of this office was spearheaded by promoters of questionable >cancer therapies who wanted more attention paid to their methods. Most >of OAM’s advisory panel members have been promoters of "alternative" >methods, and none of its publications have criticized any method. In >1994, the OAM’s first director resigned, charging that political >interference had hampered his ability to carry out OAM’s mission in a >scientific manner [6]. The OAM has funded many studies related to >"alternative" methods. However, it remains to be seen whether such >studies will yield useful results. Even if some do, their benefit is >unlikely to outweigh the publicity bonanza given to questionable >methods. In 1998, Congress upgraded OAM into an NIH center with an >annual budget of $50 million. The agency is now called the National >Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM). >An Activist’s Observations >Rosemary Jacobs, an consumer activist who operates a Web site that >debunks colloidal silver, has made some penetrating observations with >which I agree: >"Alternative therapy" is a marketing term that should not be >permitted. All the public wants is safe, effective and efficient. They >also want objective standards of measurement used to determine what is >safe, effective and efficient. There is a general consensus as to what >those standards are among scientists and rational people for most >therapies. In other words, for most diseases and conditions, experts >know what works, what doesn’t work, what is unknown and what falls >into a gray area – - what may work but the jury is still out. >Anyone wanting to practice engineering or architecture has to abide by >objective standards. I think that anyone who wants to practice >medicine professionally should have to so too. People who believe that >personal experience is the best way to evaluate drugs and therapies >should have to identify themselves as spiritualists or New Age >religious practitioners but not as medical practitioners. They should >be forced to admit to themselves and to the world that they reject >science and objective standards, and they should never be allowed to >sell the drugs they prescribe [9].
Response:
September 26, 2002
Question:
Hello all I posted much here, mainly I lurk. Sorry if this has been discussed before. I need input from anyone here in the US that is getting their meds from a online Canadian pharmacy. I have found one called CanadaPharmacy.com but the only mailing address is a PO box in Washington, so am not sure if they are legit. The above has some of my meds at a third of the price, and I really need to save as much as possible as I pay my own meds (No INS). Can you recommend an online Canadian pharmacy source? Also, is it legal to buy in Canada? bobby
Response:
For the hell of it, if you let me know what you are taking and the quantities you would want, I’ll ask my pharmacist what the costs would be. They all know me on sight and a first name basis. Last year I took them chocolates for xmas. 8^) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello all >I posted much here, mainly I lurk. Sorry if this has been discussed before. >I need input from anyone here in the US that is getting their meds from a >online >Canadian pharmacy. >I have found one called CanadaPharmacy.com but the only mailing address is a >PO box in Washington, so am not sure if they are legit. The above has some >of my meds at a third of the price, and I really need to save as much as >possible as I pay my own meds (No INS). >Can you recommend an online Canadian pharmacy source? >Also, is it legal to buy in Canada? >bobby
Response:
cc’d by email Well, I get my meds in Italy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hello all > I posted much here, mainly I lurk. Sorry if this has been discussed before. > I need input from anyone here in the US that is getting their meds from a > online > Canadian pharmacy. > I have found one called CanadaPharmacy.com but the only mailing address is a > PO box in Washington, so am not sure if they are legit. The above has some > of my meds at a third of the price, and I really need to save as much as > possible as I pay my own meds (No INS). > Can you recommend an online Canadian pharmacy source? > Also, is it legal to buy in Canada? > bobby
Response:
Bobby, I get my meds from DoctorSolve.com. They are in British Columbia, but somehow associated with some entity in Washington State too. According to a study done by a seattle newspaper, it was by far the cheapest of any of the canadian pharmacies (even cheaper than CanadianPharmacy.com). Through DoctorSolve.com I pay about 1/3 of the price for meds that I would have to pay in the states. Sorry…don’t truly know of the legalities…have heard differing things though including some a#*hole from the FDA on CNN a couple of weeks ago saying it was illegal to but from Canada, but that the FEDS would not go after little old grandmas who were trying to get cheaper prescriptions. As for me I will take my chances cause things cost way too much here. Hope you get it figured out, Terry
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello all > I posted much here, mainly I lurk. Sorry if this has been discussed before. > I need input from anyone here in the US that is getting their meds from a > online > Canadian pharmacy. > I have found one called CanadaPharmacy.com but the only mailing address is a > PO box in Washington, so am not sure if they are legit. The above has some > of my meds at a third of the price, and I really need to save as much as > possible as I pay my own meds (No INS). > Can you recommend an online Canadian pharmacy source? > Also, is it legal to buy in Canada? > bobby
Response:
OK here goes. Metformin 500mg 90 pills a month Glyburide 5mg 60 pills a month Starlix 120mg 90 pills per month Metoclopramide 10mg 120 pills a month Lisinopril 5mg 30 pills a month. Amitriptyline 50mg 30 pills a month Phomethazine 25mg 30 pills Combivent 200 puffs 2 per month Albuterol 100 puffs 3 per month I was able to fine some of these on a Canadian site but don’t know if I can trust them as they only listed a PO box for address. Thanks for your assistance bobby
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For the hell of it, if you let me know what you are taking and the > quantities you would want, I’ll ask my pharmacist what the costs would > be. > They all know me on sight and a first name basis. Last year I took > them chocolates for xmas. 8^) >Hello all >I posted much here, mainly I lurk. Sorry if this has been discussed before. >I need input from anyone here in the US that is getting their meds from a >online >Canadian pharmacy. >I have found one called CanadaPharmacy.com but the only mailing address is a >PO box in Washington, so am not sure if they are legit. The above has some >of my meds at a third of the price, and I really need to save as much as >possible as I pay my own meds (No INS). >Can you recommend an online Canadian pharmacy source? >Also, is it legal to buy in Canada? >bobby
Response:
I know of a couple of retired persons who get their meds from canadameds.com They say they pay about 1/2 to 1/3 of prices in US, and get their meds reliably. This one is a pharmacy in British Columbia, and their literature says it is legal.
Response:
Terry Thank you for the info. I wiil check it out. bobby
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Bobby, > I get my meds from DoctorSolve.com. > They are in British Columbia, but somehow associated with some entity in > Washington State too. According to a study done by a seattle newspaper, it > was by far the cheapest of any of the canadian pharmacies (even cheaper than > CanadianPharmacy.com). Through DoctorSolve.com I pay about 1/3 of the price > for meds that I would have to pay in the states. > Sorry…don’t truly know of the legalities…have heard differing things > though including some a#*hole from the FDA on CNN a couple of weeks ago > saying it was illegal to but from Canada, but that the FEDS would not go > after little old grandmas who were trying to get cheaper prescriptions. > As for me I will take my chances cause things cost way too much here. Hope > you get it figured out, > Terry
Response:
August 1, 2002
Question:
May I ask dosage? Grant seemed VERY loopy, disoriented and wobbly on it. Karen
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->can someone tell me why this would be >used in cats? > Elavil (amiltriptylin) is used both to eliminate unwanted spraying behaviors > and to treat interstitial cystitis (irritated bladder – Elavil is commonly used > for this purpose in people, too). Our female cat has been on Elavil for several > years now. She both had chronic urinary tract infections (several contrast > x-rays etc. done to rule out possible causes) and sprayed around the house. The > Elavil has stopped both the infections (well, they’re very rare versus every > other month) and the spraying. It has absolutely no effect on her personality > or energy level. When we first started her on it, she seemed unusually calm & > quiet but I wouldn’t say sedated. Now she is very happy, and so are we. We & > our vet are still not sure if the drug works by changing her brain chemistry or > by soothing her bladder wall. Either way, it is a chemical her body needs for > her to enjoy a good quality of life, so I don’t have any problem with keeping > her on the medication. > Michelle & Roxie et al.
Response:
>How long was your cat on the Elavil before you noticed a difference in her?
It’s been a while now, but I think we noticed some improvement pretty quickly. The vet tried her on Buspar first, which had no effect, and Prozac,which zonked her out. We think the Elavil both soothes her bladder and calms her kitty soul. She was unusually calm & quiet but not sedated at first, but with a constant level maintained, she’s perfectly normal & happy. Still quite the huntress (catches voles & moles even on a harness). Michelle
Response:
>May I ask dosage? Grant seemed VERY loopy, disoriented and wobbly on it.
Roxie is supposed to get 5 mg/day …I give her a 10 mg pill every other day so I don’t have to cut them (they are so incredibly bitter/foul tasting, it isn’t worth the effort). I know some folks on the group use an ear cream, which would probably let you customize the amount given. Every cat is unique, though – Roxie never acted loopy, disoriented, or wobbly, so you might want to talk with your vet. Michelle
Response:
That is what Grant was prescribed but I’m telling you he was loopy. Grant weighs 13 lbs. Hmm. Thanks for the info. Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 10 mg, but the pill is split in half, once daily (so 5mg). Cocoa is 9 lbs > and seems a little dopey, but she’s only had him on it for a few days. > May I ask dosage? Grant seemed VERY loopy, disoriented and wobbly on it. > Karen > > >can someone tell me why this would be >used in cats? > > Elavil (amiltriptylin) is used both to eliminate unwanted spraying > behaviors
Response:
Excellent site, Sue, thank you very much!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Here’s some info I found: > http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?articleid=1377 > Hope this helps. > Sue > Do you know much about this drug? I’m a little confused in wondering if > Amytriptilline is the drug name and Amitriptylin(e) is the name on the > bottle, because I’ve seen it spelled both ways in the same article.
Response:
> can someone tell me why this would be used in cats? It’s an antidepressant > in humans. > tks!
Hi Karen, I know that it’s main use is as an antidepressant. I have Multiple Sclerosis, and I am prescribed it because it actually calms down my nervous system. Cheers Sue
Response:
She actually has 20 cats (all strays that get regular veterinary care (free, if you can believe any veterinarian would do that!!!), all altered, however, there are three that seem to be fighting for alpha male status. Two of them are still a little wild in that it’s extremely difficult to get them into a carrier to get them to the vet, and we’ve discovered once we get them into a live trap once, they’re never going to let it happen again. lol. Coco, however, has been to many different vets many different times, and all have ruled out any urinary infection of any type, so it’s deemed to be ‘territorial spraying’. She was at her wits end as when Coco marked, Polar and Taz would have to come and spray over him, so when this was finally suggested as a last resort, she figured it was the only thing she could do. How long was your cat on the Elavil before you noticed a difference in her?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->can someone tell me why this would be >used in cats? > Elavil (amiltriptylin) is used both to eliminate unwanted spraying behaviors > and to treat interstitial cystitis (irritated bladder – Elavil is commonly used > for this purpose in people, too). Our female cat has been on Elavil for several > years now. She both had chronic urinary tract infections (several contrast
Response:
10 mg, but the pill is split in half, once daily (so 5mg). Cocoa is 9 lbs and seems a little dopey, but she’s only had him on it for a few days.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> May I ask dosage? Grant seemed VERY loopy, disoriented and wobbly on it. > Karen > >can someone tell me why this would be >used in cats? > Elavil (amiltriptylin) is used both to eliminate unwanted spraying > behaviors
Response:
Elavil is a brand name, the generic is amytriptiline (I’m not sure of the spelling ). I think that it only has to do with whether you prefer Greek or Latin spelling. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->can someone tell me why this would be >used in cats? > Elavil (amiltriptylin) is used both to eliminate unwanted spraying behaviors > and to treat interstitial cystitis (irritated bladder – Elavil is commonly used > for this purpose in people, too). Our female cat has been on Elavil for several > years now. She both had chronic urinary tract infections (several contrast > x-rays etc. done to rule out possible causes) and sprayed around the house. The > Elavil has stopped both the infections (well, they’re very rare versus every > other month) and the spraying. It has absolutely no effect on her personality > or energy level. When we first started her on it, she seemed unusually calm & > quiet but I wouldn’t say sedated. Now she is very happy, and so are we. We & > our vet are still not sure if the drug works by changing her brain chemistry or > by soothing her bladder wall. Either way, it is a chemical her body needs for > her to enjoy a good quality of life, so I don’t have any problem with keeping > her on the medication. > Michelle & Roxie et al.
Response:
>can someone tell me why this would be >used in cats?
Elavil (amiltriptylin) is used both to eliminate unwanted spraying behaviors and to treat interstitial cystitis (irritated bladder – Elavil is commonly used for this purpose in people, too). Our female cat has been on Elavil for several years now. She both had chronic urinary tract infections (several contrast x-rays etc. done to rule out possible causes) and sprayed around the house. The Elavil has stopped both the infections (well, they’re very rare versus every other month) and the spraying. It has absolutely no effect on her personality or energy level. When we first started her on it, she seemed unusually calm & quiet but I wouldn’t say sedated. Now she is very happy, and so are we. We & our vet are still not sure if the drug works by changing her brain chemistry or by soothing her bladder wall. Either way, it is a chemical her body needs for her to enjoy a good quality of life, so I don’t have any problem with keeping her on the medication. Michelle & Roxie et al.
Response:
Here’s some info I found: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?articleid=1377 Hope this helps. Sue – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Do you know much about this drug? I’m a little confused in wondering if > Amytriptilline is the drug name and Amitriptylin(e) is the name on the > bottle, because I’ve seen it spelled both ways in the same article. Also, > do you know if it is prescribed in territorial spraying matters to chill > them out a bit so they won’t be so territorial, or does it drug them up so > much that they can’t or just don’t care? This makes a big difference to me > as I know that antidepressants fix up (or change) the chemicals in the > brain, and sometimes have an anti-anxiety ingredient thrown in, whereas > stuff like valium or diazepam just dopes ‘em up. I’d rather the former. > Thanks for any info! > moi > It’s used to treat cats that inappropriately eliminate outside their > litterboxes and for some obsessive-compulsive behaviors. > Sue in > > can someone tell me why this would be used in cats? It’s an > antidepressant > > in humans. > > tks!
Response:
PM: > Do you know much about this drug? I’m a little confused in wondering if > Amytriptilline is the drug name and Amitriptylin(e) is the name on the > bottle, because I’ve seen it spelled both ways in the same article. Also, > do you know if it is prescribed in territorial spraying matters to chill > them out a bit so they won’t be so territorial, or does it drug them up so > much that they can’t or just don’t care? This makes a big difference to me > as I know that antidepressants fix up (or change) the chemicals in the > brain, and sometimes have an anti-anxiety ingredient thrown in, whereas > stuff like valium or diazepam just dopes ‘em up. I’d rather the former. > Thanks for any info! > moi
What my understanding is, is that if a cat is spraying due to urethral or bladder cystitis of any kind, they use this drug. It *seems* to have properties that help the condition of chronic pain. It is used the same way in humans with Interstitial Cystitis. However, it is not *known* for sure that this is really helping the condition. If you have a cat that is spraying, it is most important to have him checked by a vet. There are other possibilities too, in spraying. What article are you referring to? Go on to the web and look up FUS and FLUTD. I think you will learn what you want from reading those articles. Karen
Response:
can someone tell me why this would be used in cats? It’s an antidepressant in humans. tks!
Response:
It’s used to treat cats that inappropriately eliminate outside their litterboxes and for some obsessive-compulsive behaviors. Sue – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> can someone tell me why this would be used in cats? It’s an antidepressant > in humans. > tks!
Response:
Do you know much about this drug? I’m a little confused in wondering if Amytriptilline is the drug name and Amitriptylin(e) is the name on the bottle, because I’ve seen it spelled both ways in the same article. Also, do you know if it is prescribed in territorial spraying matters to chill them out a bit so they won’t be so territorial, or does it drug them up so much that they can’t or just don’t care? This makes a big difference to me as I know that antidepressants fix up (or change) the chemicals in the brain, and sometimes have an anti-anxiety ingredient thrown in, whereas stuff like valium or diazepam just dopes ‘em up. I’d rather the former. Thanks for any info! moi
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It’s used to treat cats that inappropriately eliminate outside their > litterboxes and for some obsessive-compulsive behaviors. > Sue > can someone tell me why this would be used in cats? It’s an antidepressant > in humans. > tks!
Response:
May I ask dosage? Grant seemed VERY loopy, disoriented and wobbly on it. Karen
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->can someone tell me why this would be >used in cats? > Elavil (amiltriptylin) is used both to eliminate unwanted spraying behaviors > and to treat interstitial cystitis (irritated bladder – Elavil is commonly used > for this purpose in people, too). Our female cat has been on Elavil for several > years now. She both had chronic urinary tract infections (several contrast > x-rays etc. done to rule out possible causes) and sprayed around the house. The > Elavil has stopped both the infections (well, they’re very rare versus every > other month) and the spraying. It has absolutely no effect on her personality > or energy level. When we first started her on it, she seemed unusually calm & > quiet but I wouldn’t say sedated. Now she is very happy, and so are we. We & > our vet are still not sure if the drug works by changing her brain chemistry or > by soothing her bladder wall. Either way, it is a chemical her body needs for > her to enjoy a good quality of life, so I don’t have any problem with keeping > her on the medication. > Michelle & Roxie et al.
Response:
>How long was your cat on the Elavil before you noticed a difference in her?
It’s been a while now, but I think we noticed some improvement pretty quickly. The vet tried her on Buspar first, which had no effect, and Prozac,which zonked her out. We think the Elavil both soothes her bladder and calms her kitty soul. She was unusually calm & quiet but not sedated at first, but with a constant level maintained, she’s perfectly normal & happy. Still quite the huntress (catches voles & moles even on a harness). Michelle
Response:
>May I ask dosage? Grant seemed VERY loopy, disoriented and wobbly on it.
Roxie is supposed to get 5 mg/day …I give her a 10 mg pill every other day so I don’t have to cut them (they are so incredibly bitter/foul tasting, it isn’t worth the effort). I know some folks on the group use an ear cream, which would probably let you customize the amount given. Every cat is unique, though – Roxie never acted loopy, disoriented, or wobbly, so you might want to talk with your vet. Michelle
Response:
That is what Grant was prescribed but I’m telling you he was loopy. Grant weighs 13 lbs. Hmm. Thanks for the info. Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 10 mg, but the pill is split in half, once daily (so 5mg). Cocoa is 9 lbs > and seems a little dopey, but she’s only had him on it for a few days. > May I ask dosage? Grant seemed VERY loopy, disoriented and wobbly on it. > Karen > > >can someone tell me why this would be >used in cats? > > Elavil (amiltriptylin) is used both to eliminate unwanted spraying > behaviors
Response:
Excellent site, Sue, thank you very much!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Here’s some info I found: > http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?articleid=1377 > Hope this helps. > Sue > Do you know much about this drug? I’m a little confused in wondering if > Amytriptilline is the drug name and Amitriptylin(e) is the name on the > bottle, because I’ve seen it spelled both ways in the same article.
Response:
> can someone tell me why this would be used in cats? It’s an antidepressant > in humans. > tks!
Hi Karen, I know that it’s main use is as an antidepressant. I have Multiple Sclerosis, and I am prescribed it because it actually calms down my nervous system. Cheers Sue
Response:
She actually has 20 cats (all strays that get regular veterinary care (free, if you can believe any veterinarian would do that!!!), all altered, however, there are three that seem to be fighting for alpha male status. Two of them are still a little wild in that it’s extremely difficult to get them into a carrier to get them to the vet, and we’ve discovered once we get them into a live trap once, they’re never going to let it happen again. lol. Coco, however, has been to many different vets many different times, and all have ruled out any urinary infection of any type, so it’s deemed to be ‘territorial spraying’. She was at her wits end as when Coco marked, Polar and Taz would have to come and spray over him, so when this was finally suggested as a last resort, she figured it was the only thing she could do. How long was your cat on the Elavil before you noticed a difference in her?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->can someone tell me why this would be >used in cats? > Elavil (amiltriptylin) is used both to eliminate unwanted spraying behaviors > and to treat interstitial cystitis (irritated bladder – Elavil is commonly used > for this purpose in people, too). Our female cat has been on Elavil for several > years now. She both had chronic urinary tract infections (several contrast
Response:
10 mg, but the pill is split in half, once daily (so 5mg). Cocoa is 9 lbs and seems a little dopey, but she’s only had him on it for a few days.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> May I ask dosage? Grant seemed VERY loopy, disoriented and wobbly on it. > Karen > >can someone tell me why this would be >used in cats? > Elavil (amiltriptylin) is used both to eliminate unwanted spraying > behaviors
Response:
Elavil is a brand name, the generic is amytriptiline (I’m not sure of the spelling ). I think that it only has to do with whether you prefer Greek or Latin spelling. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->can someone tell me why this would be >used in cats? > Elavil (amiltriptylin) is used both to eliminate unwanted spraying behaviors > and to treat interstitial cystitis (irritated bladder – Elavil is commonly used > for this purpose in people, too). Our female cat has been on Elavil for several > years now. She both had chronic urinary tract infections (several contrast > x-rays etc. done to rule out possible causes) and sprayed around the house. The > Elavil has stopped both the infections (well, they’re very rare versus every > other month) and the spraying. It has absolutely no effect on her personality > or energy level. When we first started her on it, she seemed unusually calm & > quiet but I wouldn’t say sedated. Now she is very happy, and so are we. We & > our vet are still not sure if the drug works by changing her brain chemistry or > by soothing her bladder wall. Either way, it is a chemical her body needs for > her to enjoy a good quality of life, so I don’t have any problem with keeping > her on the medication. > Michelle & Roxie et al.
Response:
>can someone tell me why this would be >used in cats?
Elavil (amiltriptylin) is used both to eliminate unwanted spraying behaviors and to treat interstitial cystitis (irritated bladder – Elavil is commonly used for this purpose in people, too). Our female cat has been on Elavil for several years now. She both had chronic urinary tract infections (several contrast x-rays etc. done to rule out possible causes) and sprayed around the house. The Elavil has stopped both the infections (well, they’re very rare versus every other month) and the spraying. It has absolutely no effect on her personality or energy level. When we first started her on it, she seemed unusually calm & quiet but I wouldn’t say sedated. Now she is very happy, and so are we. We & our vet are still not sure if the drug works by changing her brain chemistry or by soothing her bladder wall. Either way, it is a chemical her body needs for her to enjoy a good quality of life, so I don’t have any problem with keeping her on the medication. Michelle & Roxie et al.
Response:
Here’s some info I found: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?articleid=1377 Hope this helps. Sue – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Do you know much about this drug? I’m a little confused in wondering if > Amytriptilline is the drug name and Amitriptylin(e) is the name on the > bottle, because I’ve seen it spelled both ways in the same article. Also, > do you know if it is prescribed in territorial spraying matters to chill > them out a bit so they won’t be so territorial, or does it drug them up so > much that they can’t or just don’t care? This makes a big difference to me > as I know that antidepressants fix up (or change) the chemicals in the > brain, and sometimes have an anti-anxiety ingredient thrown in, whereas > stuff like valium or diazepam just dopes ‘em up. I’d rather the former. > Thanks for any info! > moi > It’s used to treat cats that inappropriately eliminate outside their > litterboxes and for some obsessive-compulsive behaviors. > Sue in > > can someone tell me why this would be used in cats? It’s an > antidepressant > > in humans. > > tks!
Response:
PM: > Do you know much about this drug? I’m a little confused in wondering if > Amytriptilline is the drug name and Amitriptylin(e) is the name on the > bottle, because I’ve seen it spelled both ways in the same article. Also, > do you know if it is prescribed in territorial spraying matters to chill > them out a bit so they won’t be so territorial, or does it drug them up so > much that they can’t or just don’t care? This makes a big difference to me > as I know that antidepressants fix up (or change) the chemicals in the > brain, and sometimes have an anti-anxiety ingredient thrown in, whereas > stuff like valium or diazepam just dopes ‘em up. I’d rather the former. > Thanks for any info! > moi
What my understanding is, is that if a cat is spraying due to urethral or bladder cystitis of any kind, they use this drug. It *seems* to have properties that help the condition of chronic pain. It is used the same way in humans with Interstitial Cystitis. However, it is not *known* for sure that this is really helping the condition. If you have a cat that is spraying, it is most important to have him checked by a vet. There are other possibilities too, in spraying. What article are you referring to? Go on to the web and look up FUS and FLUTD. I think you will learn what you want from reading those articles. Karen
Response:
can someone tell me why this would be used in cats? It’s an antidepressant in humans. tks!
Response:
It’s used to treat cats that inappropriately eliminate outside their litterboxes and for some obsessive-compulsive behaviors. Sue – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> can someone tell me why this would be used in cats? It’s an antidepressant > in humans. > tks!
Response:
Do you know much about this drug? I’m a little confused in wondering if Amytriptilline is the drug name and Amitriptylin(e) is the name on the bottle, because I’ve seen it spelled both ways in the same article. Also, do you know if it is prescribed in territorial spraying matters to chill them out a bit so they won’t be so territorial, or does it drug them up so much that they can’t or just don’t care? This makes a big difference to me as I know that antidepressants fix up (or change) the chemicals in the brain, and sometimes have an anti-anxiety ingredient thrown in, whereas stuff like valium or diazepam just dopes ‘em up. I’d rather the former. Thanks for any info! moi
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It’s used to treat cats that inappropriately eliminate outside their > litterboxes and for some obsessive-compulsive behaviors. > Sue > can someone tell me why this would be used in cats? It’s an antidepressant > in humans. > tks!
Response:
May I ask dosage? Grant seemed VERY loopy, disoriented and wobbly on it. Karen
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->can someone tell me why this would be >used in cats? > Elavil (amiltriptylin) is used both to eliminate unwanted spraying behaviors > and to treat interstitial cystitis (irritated bladder – Elavil is commonly used > for this purpose in people, too). Our female cat has been on Elavil for several > years now. She both had chronic urinary tract infections (several contrast > x-rays etc. done to rule out possible causes) and sprayed around the house. The > Elavil has stopped both the infections (well, they’re very rare versus every > other month) and the spraying. It has absolutely no effect on her personality > or energy level. When we first started her on it, she seemed unusually calm & > quiet but I wouldn’t say sedated. Now she is very happy, and so are we. We & > our vet are still not sure if the drug works by changing her brain chemistry or > by soothing her bladder wall. Either way, it is a chemical her body needs for > her to enjoy a good quality of life, so I don’t have any problem with keeping > her on the medication. > Michelle & Roxie et al.
Response:
>How long was your cat on the Elavil before you noticed a difference in her?
It’s been a while now, but I think we noticed some improvement pretty quickly. The vet tried her on Buspar first, which had no effect, and Prozac,which zonked her out. We think the Elavil both soothes her bladder and calms her kitty soul. She was unusually calm & quiet but not sedated at first, but with a constant level maintained, she’s perfectly normal & happy. Still quite the huntress (catches voles & moles even on a harness). Michelle
Response:
>May I ask dosage? Grant seemed VERY loopy, disoriented and wobbly on it.
Roxie is supposed to get 5 mg/day …I give her a 10 mg pill every other day so I don’t have to cut them (they are so incredibly bitter/foul tasting, it isn’t worth the effort). I know some folks on the group use an ear cream, which would probably let you customize the amount given. Every cat is unique, though – Roxie never acted loopy, disoriented, or wobbly, so you might want to talk with your vet. Michelle
Response:
That is what Grant was prescribed but I’m telling you he was loopy. Grant weighs 13 lbs. Hmm. Thanks for the info. Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 10 mg, but the pill is split in half, once daily (so 5mg). Cocoa is 9 lbs > and seems a little dopey, but she’s only had him on it for a few days. > May I ask dosage? Grant seemed VERY loopy, disoriented and wobbly on it. > Karen > > >can someone tell me why this would be >used in cats? > > Elavil (amiltriptylin) is used both to eliminate unwanted spraying > behaviors
Response:
Excellent site, Sue, thank you very much!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Here’s some info I found: > http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?articleid=1377 > Hope this helps. > Sue > Do you know much about this drug? I’m a little confused in wondering if > Amytriptilline is the drug name and Amitriptylin(e) is the name on the > bottle, because I’ve seen it spelled both ways in the same article.
Response:
> can someone tell me why this would be used in cats? It’s an antidepressant > in humans. > tks!
Hi Karen, I know that it’s main use is as an antidepressant. I have Multiple Sclerosis, and I am prescribed it because it actually calms down my nervous system. Cheers Sue
Response:
She actually has 20 cats (all strays that get regular veterinary care (free, if you can believe any veterinarian would do that!!!), all altered, however, there are three that seem to be fighting for alpha male status. Two of them are still a little wild in that it’s extremely difficult to get them into a carrier to get them to the vet, and we’ve discovered once we get them into a live trap once, they’re never going to let it happen again. lol. Coco, however, has been to many different vets many different times, and all have ruled out any urinary infection of any type, so it’s deemed to be ‘territorial spraying’. She was at her wits end as when Coco marked, Polar and Taz would have to come and spray over him, so when this was finally suggested as a last resort, she figured it was the only thing she could do. How long was your cat on the Elavil before you noticed a difference in her?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->can someone tell me why this would be >used in cats? > Elavil (amiltriptylin) is used both to eliminate unwanted spraying behaviors > and to treat interstitial cystitis (irritated bladder – Elavil is commonly used > for this purpose in people, too). Our female cat has been on Elavil for several > years now. She both had chronic urinary tract infections (several contrast
Response:
10 mg, but the pill is split in half, once daily (so 5mg). Cocoa is 9 lbs and seems a little dopey, but she’s only had him on it for a few days.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> May I ask dosage? Grant seemed VERY loopy, disoriented and wobbly on it. > Karen > >can someone tell me why this would be >used in cats? > Elavil (amiltriptylin) is used both to eliminate unwanted spraying > behaviors
Response:
Elavil is a brand name, the generic is amytriptiline (I’m not sure of the spelling ). I think that it only has to do with whether you prefer Greek or Latin spelling. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->can someone tell me why this would be >used in cats? > Elavil (amiltriptylin) is used both to eliminate unwanted spraying behaviors > and to treat interstitial cystitis (irritated bladder – Elavil is commonly used > for this purpose in people, too). Our female cat has been on Elavil for several > years now. She both had chronic urinary tract infections (several contrast > x-rays etc. done to rule out possible causes) and sprayed around the house. The > Elavil has stopped both the infections (well, they’re very rare versus every > other month) and the spraying. It has absolutely no effect on her personality > or energy level. When we first started her on it, she seemed unusually calm & > quiet but I wouldn’t say sedated. Now she is very happy, and so are we. We & > our vet are still not sure if the drug works by changing her brain chemistry or > by soothing her bladder wall. Either way, it is a chemical her body needs for > her to enjoy a good quality of life, so I don’t have any problem with keeping > her on the medication. > Michelle & Roxie et al.
Response:
>can someone tell me why this would be >used in cats?
Elavil (amiltriptylin) is used both to eliminate unwanted spraying behaviors and to treat interstitial cystitis (irritated bladder – Elavil is commonly used for this purpose in people, too). Our female cat has been on Elavil for several years now. She both had chronic urinary tract infections (several contrast x-rays etc. done to rule out possible causes) and sprayed around the house. The Elavil has stopped both the infections (well, they’re very rare versus every other month) and the spraying. It has absolutely no effect on her personality or energy level. When we first started her on it, she seemed unusually calm & quiet but I wouldn’t say sedated. Now she is very happy, and so are we. We & our vet are still not sure if the drug works by changing her brain chemistry or by soothing her bladder wall. Either way, it is a chemical her body needs for her to enjoy a good quality of life, so I don’t have any problem with keeping her on the medication. Michelle & Roxie et al.
Response:
Here’s some info I found: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?articleid=1377 Hope this helps. Sue – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Do you know much about this drug? I’m a little confused in wondering if > Amytriptilline is the drug name and Amitriptylin(e) is the name on the > bottle, because I’ve seen it spelled both ways in the same article. Also, > do you know if it is prescribed in territorial spraying matters to chill > them out a bit so they won’t be so territorial, or does it drug them up so > much that they can’t or just don’t care? This makes a big difference to me > as I know that antidepressants fix up (or change) the chemicals in the > brain, and sometimes have an anti-anxiety ingredient thrown in, whereas > stuff like valium or diazepam just dopes ‘em up. I’d rather the former. > Thanks for any info! > moi > It’s used to treat cats that inappropriately eliminate outside their > litterboxes and for some obsessive-compulsive behaviors. > Sue in > > can someone tell me why this would be used in cats? It’s an > antidepressant > > in humans. > > tks!
Response:
PM: > Do you know much about this drug? I’m a little confused in wondering if > Amytriptilline is the drug name and Amitriptylin(e) is the name on the > bottle, because I’ve seen it spelled both ways in the same article. Also, > do you know if it is prescribed in territorial spraying matters to chill > them out a bit so they won’t be so territorial, or does it drug them up so > much that they can’t or just don’t care? This makes a big difference to me > as I know that antidepressants fix up (or change) the chemicals in the > brain, and sometimes have an anti-anxiety ingredient thrown in, whereas > stuff like valium or diazepam just dopes ‘em up. I’d rather the former. > Thanks for any info! > moi
What my understanding is, is that if a cat is spraying due to urethral or bladder cystitis of any kind, they use this drug. It *seems* to have properties that help the condition of chronic pain. It is used the same way in humans with Interstitial Cystitis. However, it is not *known* for sure that this is really helping the condition. If you have a cat that is spraying, it is most important to have him checked by a vet. There are other possibilities too, in spraying. What article are you referring to? Go on to the web and look up FUS and FLUTD. I think you will learn what you want from reading those articles. Karen
Response:
can someone tell me why this would be used in cats? It’s an antidepressant in humans. tks!
Response:
It’s used to treat cats that inappropriately eliminate outside their litterboxes and for some obsessive-compulsive behaviors. Sue – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> can someone tell me why this would be used in cats? It’s an antidepressant > in humans. > tks!
Response:
Do you know much about this drug? I’m a little confused in wondering if Amytriptilline is the drug name and Amitriptylin(e) is the name on the bottle, because I’ve seen it spelled both ways in the same article. Also, do you know if it is prescribed in territorial spraying matters to chill them out a bit so they won’t be so territorial, or does it drug them up so much that they can’t or just don’t care? This makes a big difference to me as I know that antidepressants fix up (or change) the chemicals in the brain, and sometimes have an anti-anxiety ingredient thrown in, whereas stuff like valium or diazepam just dopes ‘em up. I’d rather the former. Thanks for any info! moi
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It’s used to treat cats that inappropriately eliminate outside their > litterboxes and for some obsessive-compulsive behaviors. > Sue > can someone tell me why this would be used in cats? It’s an antidepressant > in humans. > tks!
Response:
July 16, 2002
Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > According "Vetinfo.com" (http://www.vetinfo.com/dthunder.html#Thunderstorm > Anxiety) > the most common recommendations for thunderstorm anxiety are Rescue > Remedy ™, which I think is also called Calming Essence ™ and Bach > flower remedies. > How successful these treatments are probably depends on who you ask, but they > are safe to try. > Melatonin, 0.1mg/kg once or twice daily, used during the thunderstorm > season in conjunction with amitriptyline 3mg/kg every 12 hours, may be > helpful, as well, based on a case report in the AVMA Journal by Dr. Linda > Aronson from Jan 1999. > Sometimes it is also helpful to put the dog in a small room with a LOUD fan. > (white sound) can often be helpful. > The main thing is be sure the dog cannot get out because it would be > heartbreaking to have him panic and bolt and maybe get lost. Old dogs > sometimes > have hearing loss that prevents them from knowing which DIRECTION a sound is > coming from. This can be quite stressful to them because their eyes are often > failing and maybe even sense of smell so that all means fear of what is now > the > ‘unknown’. > Good luck with your old friend. Try the ideas I mentioned here and I hope one > works.
I sound like a Benadryl salesman here lately, but our vet suggested we give that a try. We give our 57 lb dog one pill when she starts getting worked up over thunder and it has calmed her so well we can’t believe it. Due to all of our allergies, we always have a supply of the generic variety in stock around here.
Response:
According "Vetinfo.com" (http://www.vetinfo.com/dthunder.html#Thunderstorm Anxiety) the most common recommendations for thunderstorm anxiety are Rescue Remedy ™, which I think is also called Calming Essence ™ and Bach flower remedies. How successful these treatments are probably depends on who you ask, but they are safe to try. Melatonin, 0.1mg/kg once or twice daily, used during the thunderstorm season in conjunction with amitriptyline 3mg/kg every 12 hours, may be helpful, as well, based on a case report in the AVMA Journal by Dr. Linda Aronson from Jan 1999. Sometimes it is also helpful to put the dog in a small room with a LOUD fan. (white sound) can often be helpful. The main thing is be sure the dog cannot get out because it would be heartbreaking to have him panic and bolt and maybe get lost. Old dogs sometimes have hearing loss that prevents them from knowing which DIRECTION a sound is coming from. This can be quite stressful to them because their eyes are often failing and maybe even sense of smell so that all means fear of what is now the ‘unknown’. Good luck with your old friend. Try the ideas I mentioned here and I hope one works.
Response:
Our 11 year old lab never used to be bothered by thunderstorms until the past month. Now he goes into a panic when he hears thunder and is driving us crazy. Any ideas on how to calm him down? Jamie
Response:
June 27, 2002
Question:
Hi David, Thanks for replying. Yes, I’m sorry it was so long – I guess it just took a while to get it all out of my system. I got the appointment yesterday for the 3rd of July to see a Doc at the Pain Clinic, which considering I normally have to wait 2-3 months for an appointment at the hospital is no time at all, for which I am very pleased. This is both a bad thing as well as a good one. This is because although I am very happy that that my pain problems are going to be looked at I also want an appointment with a Nuero Doc. I want this referral as soon as possible because of the waiting times involved. I am also worried that I might have ended up in a bit of a dumping ground/blind ally. I’m trying but nobody seems to want me to for some reason. Thanks for the wish for luck, I join with you. Thanks again, Take care, Iduna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I agree wholeheartedly….I kept reading thinking we would see that had been > explored…take it from a severe back injured person…see the > NueroSurgeonASAP!!!!!! > GOOD LUCK TO U! >Hi Iduna… >From your symptoms, especially the leg and bowel and bladder >involvement, I’d say you have severe nerve impingement going on! This >is very serious, especially with the bowel and bladder. You need to >see a neurologist/neurosurgeon immediately! This shouldn’t have been >allowed to go on, at all! An MRI doesn’t always show all damage going >on with the spinal nerves, by a long shot, so get in to see a >specialist as soon as you can! Demand it! I had the worst herniated >disc my first surgeon had ever seen, but the mri showed only slight >bulging! I take it you are somewhere in the UK, or Europe, so I can’t >help you with what doctors to see specifically, but there are surely >neurologists wherever you are, so seek an opinion from one as soon as >you possibly can! You can end up with permanent damage if this >condition isn’t treated quickly, if it is indeed an impingement on the >nerves to the lower abdominal areas. I was lucky in that my damage was >only to the calf muscle and a smaller degree with the thigh muscles, >but neither will ever be normal again. >I do hope you find help soon! My prayers and hopes go with you. Please >let us know what happens with you, and if you find the help you so >desperately deserve! >Sincerely, >Marcia >>>Hi All, >>>First, I would like to say how much I enjoyed reading posts from people >>>who might actually get the whole pain thing. Mike who I got in touch >>>with via his website has put me on to this newsgroup. >>>I was wondering if you could give me some advice – or know someone/where >>>that can. I afraid this might take a while ! >>>Well here goes – >>>I have progressive chronic pain in my tailbone/tailbone area, causing >>>severe (and getting worse) mobility problems. I can barely walk due to >>>extreme pain in my tailbone area as well as pain and weakness in my >>>right leg. I have reached the point (so far) where I use a stick indoors >>>(we have a very small flat) and a wheelchair outside and for any >>>distance. As I can only walk around 20 meters before I have to rest or >>>burst into tears at the pain – not good. I have been known to throw-up >>>in extreme circumstances (i.e. moving my bowels). I can only stand for a >>>short time and I can’t put all my weight on my right leg. I can’t sit >>>straight or lie flat on my back. I have to lie on my side or my front. >>>When I sit, I sit curled up on my legs or sit on one hip or the other. >>>I also have some sort of overflow incontinence. Where, if I’m involved >>>in something and I forget to go to the toilet (7 or 8 times out of 10 I >>>don’t get the signal to tell me to go), I seem to overflow. I don’t >>>always know this has happened, either due to the various sensory >>>problems I have in my upper legs and lower bottom area. I don’t lose a >>>lot, obviously just enough to relieve the pressure, but enough to leave >>>a sizeable patch that I live in fear of anyone seeing. >>>Unfortunately the doctors seem unable to diagnose what is causing all >>>these problems, and therefore I don’t know how long I’m going to be like >>>this – or worse ! I’m hoping that once they figure it out, they’ll be >>>able to cure me. I have been through two hospital departments so far >>>(Surgical and Orthopaedic) and am heading towards another one >>>(Neurology). I have had three lots of semi-minor surgery, several >>>x-rays, a MRI and lots of trips to the local A&E over the past 8-9 >>>months and STILL nobody seems to know what’s wrong ! >>>My G.P is very good on the Tea and Sympathy routine but pretty hopeless >>>on anything that might actually help me. All she seems able to do is >>>write prescriptions, sick notes and letters to the Hospital, none of >>>which seem to help me much. She looked at me blankly when I asked about >>>how to get a wheelchair so I had to do all the frustrating ringing >>>around myself. All she says it that she doesn’t know how it all works >>>and if I send the appropriate person to her she will happily talk to >>>them write a letter to them backing me up. >>>I have been through several lots of different medications and am >>>presently on Amitriptyline (so-called pain relief in an anti-depressant >>>- Ha !) and Dihydrocodeine (very little pain relief but it’s better than >>>nothing, causes headaches) The headaches come on especially on standing, >>>it shoots up my spine into my head. It’s like a pressure headache, like >>>the kind you get from blowing up balloons too hard. At least the >>>Amitriptyline helps my sleep somewhat but I’m still in continuous pain. >>>The Doctor won’t give me anything else. >>>I can get anything as little as three hours sleep (when I’m in more pain >>>than usual) to as much as 12-14 hours (when I’m so exhausted that I >>>crash and burn). The problem is unless I’m knocked out I move and when I >>>move it causes pain which wakes me up, so I have a very disturbed night. >>>When your sleep is continually disturbed every few hours like that, once >>>every couple of weeks you fall into an exhausted sleep for many hours as >>>your body caches up on the missed recuperation time. I am constantly >>>sleep deprived. >>>Sorry – I know I’m going on a bit, it’s just that I don’t get to talk to >>>someone who might have the faintest idea what I’m talking about very >>>often. I hope you don’t mind. It’s always Doctors, able people or my >>>partner. >>>Doctors don’t seem to care that much; they want me out of their office >>>so that they don’t have to work too hard. They can’t put their finger on >>>what’s wrong right away so, they don’t want to know. >>>My able friends are very sympathetic but don’t grasp what I’m getting >>>at. I’ve been telling them for seven or eight months that I’m getting >>>worse and that every month that goes by there’s something else I can’t >>>do due to the pain. Yet, they’re surprised when they don’t see me for a >>>month and then I turn up in a wheelchair. They thought we’d left the >>>area !! It just showed how much they listen to me. >>>My partner (of 4
May 25, 2002
Question:
> Thank you so much for the information.
You’re welcome. I hope it helps a little. This has given me a great start in > researching. > I have heard some statistics that 50% of testing will be unsuccessful with > Feline Interstitial Cystitis (I couldn’t find much information on this > though) – I’m just wondering if you had heard any differently.
The statistics I’ve seen where no definitive diagnosis could be made were as high as 58% of female and 79% of male cats (without urinary tract obstruction). IC in cats seems to be very similar to IC in women (‘difficult, painful, and frequent urination in the absence of a diagnosable cause’). In fact, some veterinary pathologists have proposed redefining FUS and FLUTD as Feline Interstitial Cystitis. Makes sense to me because "FUS" and "FLUTD" are no more a diagnosis than are vomiting or pruritus… The only major difference between feline and human IC, is that ~50% of feline interstitial cystitis cases have increased numbers of mast cells in the bladder wall and/or urine that can be seen when special stains are used. Mast cells is not specific for interstitial cystitis in humans. Its possible that the histamine in mast cells mediate some of the signs of IC in cats. Do you know > if they usually do a "different" urinalysis for crystals (my vet never > mentioned anything about crystals in the urinalysis done last week).
Testing for crystals is part of a routine urinalysis. Your vet probably didn’t find any significant crystalluria, otherwise I’m sure he would have mentioned it and recommended a prescription diet to dissolve the (struvite?) crystals. Crystals can certainly cause cystitis by irritating and inflaming the bladder wall. However, only about 20% of the cats with signs of iFLUTD/IC actually have crystals in the urine. Thus crystalluria is not considered the primary cause of IC. I feel > that it is definitely an important test to have given the recurrence of the > condition and how it is apparently painful on the cats. Hopefully the wet > food will remedy the crystals so
Canned food is the first line treatment for (and prevention of) crystals and cystitis (and UTI); the higher urine volume achieved with canned food dilutes the concentration of solutes in the urine and the more frequent urination results in the elimination of crystalogenic substances and organic matrix before they aggregate to form crystals and uroliths or urethral plugs. More frequent urination also results in less bladder contact time with urine which can reduce inflammation. Elavil won’t be needed (though she pills > easily, it doesn’t seem great to have to always give her drugs).
Amitriptyline is reported to also have an analgesic effect in cats – which may be partly (or wholly) responsible for the therapeutic effect. I’m not a proponent of drugging a cat for a diseased-induced, learned behavioral disorder. One of the reasons why iFLUTD/IC-related behavior problems can be so difficult to treat is because after visible signs (hematuria, dysuria, pollakiuria) resolve, its difficult to determine if inappropriate urination is a result of an active disorder or a learned behavior. Many cats still associate painful urination with the litter box long after the symptoms have resolved. In most cases, IC is self-limiting to about a week, but the behavior can persist for months. Buy a new litter box and a different litter. Sometimes this helps to break the pain-litter box association without resorting to retraining or ‘crate training’ which are both stressful for the cat and may result in disease recrudesce. When she returns to normal litter box habits, you can switch back to your previous litter. This is not to be confused with litter box aversion. > And I wouldn’t be surprised if cystitis is the culprit.
In the absence of crystals and/or UTI, most cases of "FLUTD/FUS" probably are actually feline interstitial cystitis. We have not had > luck transferring Kid over to a wet food diet because I knew it was better > for them — she’s been on dry food (Royal Canin). We’ve tried every few > weeks to mix her food, treat it, put it on her nose, try a new batch of > kinds etc etc… to no luck.
Cats are very texture-oriented. Their texture preferences are strongly influenced by the type of food they were fed at a young age and can be very difficult to change. The indomitable spirit of the cat that we admire so much and commands our respect….. can be a real PITA sometimes… especially when we’re trying to effect a change!!! 
Thankfully our other cat eats almost all wet > food (and since he isn’t picky, doesn’t mind any of her refused food > flavours). I have to admit, after her refusals and meowing for awhile, I > usually relent (softie!) – which is where I went wrong.
On, I know the feeling, well! You can’t go eyeball-to-eyeball with a cat over food because the cat will *never* blink first…. unless she likes the food! Cats would rather starve (and do) than eat a food they don’t like. The problem is that > she has the *strangest* idea of what is a "treat" to her.
Its only strange to you… To her, its perfectly normal… She really has no > interest in common treats I would feel more comfortable about using to try > to move her over to a wet diet. Instead, bread, lettuce and pie filling is > what she tries to steal from us and is definitely not something to give
her. That may not be such a bad thing… Since she has a preference for people food, try small cubes of rare chuck steak or unseasoned roast beef, cooked turkey and chicken (with and without the skin). This could be the first step in the transition over to canned food. > But yesterday I found a store now carrying a Nutro "bits in gravy" special > food and was tough on her last night – gave her wet and only a little kibble > with it — and after a long while she did eat a little wet food too this > morning (a great sign!).
Are you sure the food was Nutro? I’ve never seen a "Bits in Gravy" diet in either of their lines. Whatever it is, it may just turn out to be the first step in the transition over to canned food. Once she’s eating canned, its much easier to switch brands and flavors that it is to switch textures. How long is it safe to leave them for without a > regular amount of food?
I leave out only as much food as my cats will eat in 20 minutes. If they finish all of it, I’ll put out a little more. I guess she’ll gradually eat more, but I’d hate to > starve her and make her sick.
Wise strategy. Many cases of hepatic lipidosis were probably the result of the ill-advised "eat it or starve" strategy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know this is being really hopeful with a "picky cat"- but have you heard > if natural "home made" diets are particularly beneficial to cystitis? I > realize it is a big job to do it properly, but if I knew it would help her, > it’s definitely a direction I would like to go in. > Thanks again for your help. I’m really sad I wasn’t more strict in the past > with her and her eating wet. But with this knowledge and "real life > example" my cats now and in the future will have a very different diet for > sure. With a little bit more research on testing I think I will be able to > go into the vets and I suppose "know what they are talking about" and at > least know what to ask about. I definitely shouldn’t have been so hasty > with my own vet, but I do wish he explained all of this to me as you have
Many vets aren’t nutrition-oriented – very little time is spent on feline medicine in vet school and even less time on feline nutrition. Most vets provide little nutritional education because the pet food industry has taken this of their job "off their hands." The pet food industry’s nutritional ‘experts’ usually educate most vets and vet students about feline (and canine) nutrition (just ask Steve:) )…. and its usually, to use their products… especially their dry foods… because the profit margin is higher… I read an article in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association (J Am Vet Med Assoc 1996 Mar 1;208(5):674-5), entitled "A Survey of Veterinarians Knowledge and Attitudes About Nutrition" that stated "veterinarians indicated that nutrition training is inadequate in veterinary schools and quality of continuing education on nutrition is inferior." …. not very comforting considering our cats health and very lives depend on good nutrition… That survey certainly explains why many vets still recommend dry foods (and Friskies…) and don’t really see any "big difference" between foods. > (and I do think I will still go to the cats-only vet just to put the mind at > ease they are "cat people"…)
The way I see it, that’s half the battle… I’d rather use a vet who concentrates his/her attention on one species (my favorite species) than one who spreads it thinly over many. You’d be utterly shocked by the number of vets who actually don’t like, or are indifferent, towards cats. Vets are people, too, and have their preferences. > Thanks again,
You’re welcome, and Good luck! Phil. — "Cats are a great warm-up to a successful marriage; they teach you your place in the household". –Paul Gallaco Feline Healthcare: http://maxshouse.com http://maxshouse.org – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jen. > > Hello everyone, > > My female 1 year old tuxedo/siamese cat has been urinating outside of > the > > box. She went into the vets for a urinalysis which showed blood in her > > urine. Her Ph was normal, no white cells to suggest an infection, and > no > > problem with bacteria. So she (today) had an X-ray to
… read more »
Response:
> I
May 18, 2002
Question:
> I think a veterinary school is an excellent idea. I hope you can keep us > posted. Best wishes. > Karen
The university of Guelph would be the place to go, but it’s not too close – about 100 km. (an hour and a half by car). Sorry things are so rough for poor Germanie; good luck. Deb
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Our cat Germanie, an 8 year old male orange tabby, developed > an urination problem about 2.5 weeks ago. It went to the > litter box frequently, had blood in the urine, and left tiny > drops of urine (with blood) on the floor. Once we discovered > the problem, we took it first to an emergency animal clinic > (because it was a Sunday). They prescribed baytril (antibiotic). > Is there anything I can do to help Germanie? The vet told us > that the problem may be due to stress. It is true that we moved > to a new place in late January this year. Before, we lived in a > bachelor apartment, and Germanie slept with me for years. Now, > in our new place, an one-bedroom apartment, the cat isn’t allowed > to sleep in the bedroom, because the bedroom is carpeted, and > more important, my wife is there. It now sleeps by itself in > the living room. I wonder if this caused the stress. These > few days I also sleep in the living room just by myself with > the cat, but the situation isn’t improving. (I don’t think > I can do it for long anyway, or my wife will get upset.) > I’m sorry to hear about your cat. But I have to question the vet for thinking > his condition is stress related. Yes, stress can cause problems, but urine in > the blood? > I notice from your email addy that you are perhaps going to school there in > Toronto. Maybe there is a veterinary school nearby where you might be able to > get some answers and help for your kitty? I can tell from your post that you > love him very much, and I really hope everything turns out okay. > I feel very sad for Germanie because it must feel very uncomfortable… > please help. > That’s why it’s very important to have him diagnosed properly and treated. If > you let it go, it may only get worse for him. Good luck and please keep us > posted. > Lauren > =^..^= > See my cats: > http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/mickey4paws2000/lst2?.tok=bcSBfAPB.wc8DtTG… > =/Mickey%26Meesha&.src=ph
I think a veterinary school is an excellent idea. I hope you can keep us posted. Best wishes. Karen
Response:
Our cat Germanie, an 8 year old male orange tabby, developed an urination problem about 2.5 weeks ago. It went to the litter box frequently, had blood in the urine, and left tiny drops of urine (with blood) on the floor. Once we discovered the problem, we took it first to an emergency animal clinic (because it was a Sunday). They prescribed baytril (antibiotic). The next day, the problem grew worse. We took it to a vet recommended by a friend. The vet seems very experienced and knowledgable. He did a few tests, including pneumocystogram, which showed no stone, no crystal, etc. The urine sample taken directly from the bladder showed no bateria either. He diagnosed it as idiopathic interstitial cystitis, something that I could barely spell. He prescribed 5mg prednisone twice a day, and amitriptyline 25mg half a pill per day. We also feed it wet Iams food and some food the vet gave us. The first few days we fed Germanie the pills, the cat returned to normal and had no blood in the urine. This lasted for about two weeks. We had not finished the medicine yet, but the problem suddenly comes back. The cat goes to the litter box every 2 minutes, until it gets tired. (It does a lot of walking). The urine is thick, and has some blood (but not very noticeable). Is there anything I can do to help Germanie? The vet told us that the problem may be due to stress. It is true that we moved to a new place in late January this year. Before, we lived in a bachelor apartment, and Germanie slept with me for years. Now, in our new place, an one-bedroom apartment, the cat isn’t allowed to sleep in the bedroom, because the bedroom is carpeted, and more important, my wife is there. It now sleeps by itself in the living room. I wonder if this caused the stress. These few days I also sleep in the living room just by myself with the cat, but the situation isn’t improving. (I don’t think I can do it for long anyway, or my wife will get upset.) I worry that the problem is something serious. Also, I am a student, and the bill so far already cost $800 (CAD). I don’t know how far I can go on. In any case, I’ll call the vet and see what he thinks. However, I am reluctant to subject the cat to the invasive biopsy and surgery, which the vet had mentioned. This is not due to cost alone, but I think it is too painful. The cat has gone thru a general anaethesia for the pneumocystogram already. I feel very sad for Germanie because it must feel very uncomfortable… please help. Dickson 4.0
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Our cat Germanie, an 8 year old male orange tabby, developed >an urination problem about 2.5 weeks ago. It went to the >litter box frequently, had blood in the urine, and left tiny >drops of urine (with blood) on the floor. Once we discovered >the problem, we took it first to an emergency animal clinic >(because it was a Sunday). They prescribed baytril (antibiotic). >Is there anything I can do to help Germanie? The vet told us >that the problem may be due to stress. It is true that we moved >to a new place in late January this year. Before, we lived in a >bachelor apartment, and Germanie slept with me for years. Now, >in our new place, an one-bedroom apartment, the cat isn’t allowed >to sleep in the bedroom, because the bedroom is carpeted, and >more important, my wife is there. It now sleeps by itself in >the living room. I wonder if this caused the stress. These >few days I also sleep in the living room just by myself with >the cat, but the situation isn’t improving. (I don’t think >I can do it for long anyway, or my wife will get upset.)
I’m sorry to hear about your cat. But I have to question the vet for thinking his condition is stress related. Yes, stress can cause problems, but urine in the blood? I notice from your email addy that you are perhaps going to school there in Toronto. Maybe there is a veterinary school nearby where you might be able to get some answers and help for your kitty? I can tell from your post that you love him very much, and I really hope everything turns out okay. >I feel very sad for Germanie because it must feel very uncomfortable… >please help.
That’s why it’s very important to have him diagnosed properly and treated. If you let it go, it may only get worse for him. Good luck and please keep us posted. Lauren =^..^= See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/mickey4paws2000/lst2?.tok=bcSBfAPB.wc8DtTG… =/Mickey%26Meesha&.src=ph
Response:
> I think a veterinary school is an excellent idea. I hope you can keep us > posted. Best wishes. > Karen
The university of Guelph would be the place to go, but it’s not too close – about 100 km. (an hour and a half by car). Sorry things are so rough for poor Germanie; good luck. Deb
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Our cat Germanie, an 8 year old male orange tabby, developed > an urination problem about 2.5 weeks ago. It went to the > litter box frequently, had blood in the urine, and left tiny > drops of urine (with blood) on the floor. Once we discovered > the problem, we took it first to an emergency animal clinic > (because it was a Sunday). They prescribed baytril (antibiotic). > Is there anything I can do to help Germanie? The vet told us > that the problem may be due to stress. It is true that we moved > to a new place in late January this year. Before, we lived in a > bachelor apartment, and Germanie slept with me for years. Now, > in our new place, an one-bedroom apartment, the cat isn’t allowed > to sleep in the bedroom, because the bedroom is carpeted, and > more important, my wife is there. It now sleeps by itself in > the living room. I wonder if this caused the stress. These > few days I also sleep in the living room just by myself with > the cat, but the situation isn’t improving. (I don’t think > I can do it for long anyway, or my wife will get upset.) > I’m sorry to hear about your cat. But I have to question the vet for thinking > his condition is stress related. Yes, stress can cause problems, but urine in > the blood? > I notice from your email addy that you are perhaps going to school there in > Toronto. Maybe there is a veterinary school nearby where you might be able to > get some answers and help for your kitty? I can tell from your post that you > love him very much, and I really hope everything turns out okay. > I feel very sad for Germanie because it must feel very uncomfortable… > please help. > That’s why it’s very important to have him diagnosed properly and treated. If > you let it go, it may only get worse for him. Good luck and please keep us > posted. > Lauren > =^..^= > See my cats: > http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/mickey4paws2000/lst2?.tok=bcSBfAPB.wc8DtTG… > =/Mickey%26Meesha&.src=ph
I think a veterinary school is an excellent idea. I hope you can keep us posted. Best wishes. Karen
Response:
Our cat Germanie, an 8 year old male orange tabby, developed an urination problem about 2.5 weeks ago. It went to the litter box frequently, had blood in the urine, and left tiny drops of urine (with blood) on the floor. Once we discovered the problem, we took it first to an emergency animal clinic (because it was a Sunday). They prescribed baytril (antibiotic). The next day, the problem grew worse. We took it to a vet recommended by a friend. The vet seems very experienced and knowledgable. He did a few tests, including pneumocystogram, which showed no stone, no crystal, etc. The urine sample taken directly from the bladder showed no bateria either. He diagnosed it as idiopathic interstitial cystitis, something that I could barely spell. He prescribed 5mg prednisone twice a day, and amitriptyline 25mg half a pill per day. We also feed it wet Iams food and some food the vet gave us. The first few days we fed Germanie the pills, the cat returned to normal and had no blood in the urine. This lasted for about two weeks. We had not finished the medicine yet, but the problem suddenly comes back. The cat goes to the litter box every 2 minutes, until it gets tired. (It does a lot of walking). The urine is thick, and has some blood (but not very noticeable). Is there anything I can do to help Germanie? The vet told us that the problem may be due to stress. It is true that we moved to a new place in late January this year. Before, we lived in a bachelor apartment, and Germanie slept with me for years. Now, in our new place, an one-bedroom apartment, the cat isn’t allowed to sleep in the bedroom, because the bedroom is carpeted, and more important, my wife is there. It now sleeps by itself in the living room. I wonder if this caused the stress. These few days I also sleep in the living room just by myself with the cat, but the situation isn’t improving. (I don’t think I can do it for long anyway, or my wife will get upset.) I worry that the problem is something serious. Also, I am a student, and the bill so far already cost $800 (CAD). I don’t know how far I can go on. In any case, I’ll call the vet and see what he thinks. However, I am reluctant to subject the cat to the invasive biopsy and surgery, which the vet had mentioned. This is not due to cost alone, but I think it is too painful. The cat has gone thru a general anaethesia for the pneumocystogram already. I feel very sad for Germanie because it must feel very uncomfortable… please help. Dickson 4.0
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Our cat Germanie, an 8 year old male orange tabby, developed >an urination problem about 2.5 weeks ago. It went to the >litter box frequently, had blood in the urine, and left tiny >drops of urine (with blood) on the floor. Once we discovered >the problem, we took it first to an emergency animal clinic >(because it was a Sunday). They prescribed baytril (antibiotic). >Is there anything I can do to help Germanie? The vet told us >that the problem may be due to stress. It is true that we moved >to a new place in late January this year. Before, we lived in a >bachelor apartment, and Germanie slept with me for years. Now, >in our new place, an one-bedroom apartment, the cat isn’t allowed >to sleep in the bedroom, because the bedroom is carpeted, and >more important, my wife is there. It now sleeps by itself in >the living room. I wonder if this caused the stress. These >few days I also sleep in the living room just by myself with >the cat, but the situation isn’t improving. (I don’t think >I can do it for long anyway, or my wife will get upset.)
I’m sorry to hear about your cat. But I have to question the vet for thinking his condition is stress related. Yes, stress can cause problems, but urine in the blood? I notice from your email addy that you are perhaps going to school there in Toronto. Maybe there is a veterinary school nearby where you might be able to get some answers and help for your kitty? I can tell from your post that you love him very much, and I really hope everything turns out okay. >I feel very sad for Germanie because it must feel very uncomfortable… >please help.
That’s why it’s very important to have him diagnosed properly and treated. If you let it go, it may only get worse for him. Good luck and please keep us posted. Lauren =^..^= See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/mickey4paws2000/lst2?.tok=bcSBfAPB.wc8DtTG… =/Mickey%26Meesha&.src=ph
Response:
> I think a veterinary school is an excellent idea. I hope you can keep us > posted. Best wishes. > Karen
The university of Guelph would be the place to go, but it’s not too close – about 100 km. (an hour and a half by car). Sorry things are so rough for poor Germanie; good luck. Deb
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Our cat Germanie, an 8 year old male orange tabby, developed > an urination problem about 2.5 weeks ago. It went to the > litter box frequently, had blood in the urine, and left tiny > drops of urine (with blood) on the floor. Once we discovered > the problem, we took it first to an emergency animal clinic > (because it was a Sunday). They prescribed baytril (antibiotic). > Is there anything I can do to help Germanie? The vet told us > that the problem may be due to stress. It is true that we moved > to a new place in late January this year. Before, we lived in a > bachelor apartment, and Germanie slept with me for years. Now, > in our new place, an one-bedroom apartment, the cat isn’t allowed > to sleep in the bedroom, because the bedroom is carpeted, and > more important, my wife is there. It now sleeps by itself in > the living room. I wonder if this caused the stress. These > few days I also sleep in the living room just by myself with > the cat, but the situation isn’t improving. (I don’t think > I can do it for long anyway, or my wife will get upset.) > I’m sorry to hear about your cat. But I have to question the vet for thinking > his condition is stress related. Yes, stress can cause problems, but urine in > the blood? > I notice from your email addy that you are perhaps going to school there in > Toronto. Maybe there is a veterinary school nearby where you might be able to > get some answers and help for your kitty? I can tell from your post that you > love him very much, and I really hope everything turns out okay. > I feel very sad for Germanie because it must feel very uncomfortable… > please help. > That’s why it’s very important to have him diagnosed properly and treated. If > you let it go, it may only get worse for him. Good luck and please keep us > posted. > Lauren > =^..^= > See my cats: > http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/mickey4paws2000/lst2?.tok=bcSBfAPB.wc8DtTG… > =/Mickey%26Meesha&.src=ph
I think a veterinary school is an excellent idea. I hope you can keep us posted. Best wishes. Karen
Response:
Our cat Germanie, an 8 year old male orange tabby, developed an urination problem about 2.5 weeks ago. It went to the litter box frequently, had blood in the urine, and left tiny drops of urine (with blood) on the floor. Once we discovered the problem, we took it first to an emergency animal clinic (because it was a Sunday). They prescribed baytril (antibiotic). The next day, the problem grew worse. We took it to a vet recommended by a friend. The vet seems very experienced and knowledgable. He did a few tests, including pneumocystogram, which showed no stone, no crystal, etc. The urine sample taken directly from the bladder showed no bateria either. He diagnosed it as idiopathic interstitial cystitis, something that I could barely spell. He prescribed 5mg prednisone twice a day, and amitriptyline 25mg half a pill per day. We also feed it wet Iams food and some food the vet gave us. The first few days we fed Germanie the pills, the cat returned to normal and had no blood in the urine. This lasted for about two weeks. We had not finished the medicine yet, but the problem suddenly comes back. The cat goes to the litter box every 2 minutes, until it gets tired. (It does a lot of walking). The urine is thick, and has some blood (but not very noticeable). Is there anything I can do to help Germanie? The vet told us that the problem may be due to stress. It is true that we moved to a new place in late January this year. Before, we lived in a bachelor apartment, and Germanie slept with me for years. Now, in our new place, an one-bedroom apartment, the cat isn’t allowed to sleep in the bedroom, because the bedroom is carpeted, and more important, my wife is there. It now sleeps by itself in the living room. I wonder if this caused the stress. These few days I also sleep in the living room just by myself with the cat, but the situation isn’t improving. (I don’t think I can do it for long anyway, or my wife will get upset.) I worry that the problem is something serious. Also, I am a student, and the bill so far already cost $800 (CAD). I don’t know how far I can go on. In any case, I’ll call the vet and see what he thinks. However, I am reluctant to subject the cat to the invasive biopsy and surgery, which the vet had mentioned. This is not due to cost alone, but I think it is too painful. The cat has gone thru a general anaethesia for the pneumocystogram already. I feel very sad for Germanie because it must feel very uncomfortable… please help. Dickson 4.0
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Our cat Germanie, an 8 year old male orange tabby, developed >an urination problem about 2.5 weeks ago. It went to the >litter box frequently, had blood in the urine, and left tiny >drops of urine (with blood) on the floor. Once we discovered >the problem, we took it first to an emergency animal clinic >(because it was a Sunday). They prescribed baytril (antibiotic). >Is there anything I can do to help Germanie? The vet told us >that the problem may be due to stress. It is true that we moved >to a new place in late January this year. Before, we lived in a >bachelor apartment, and Germanie slept with me for years. Now, >in our new place, an one-bedroom apartment, the cat isn’t allowed >to sleep in the bedroom, because the bedroom is carpeted, and >more important, my wife is there. It now sleeps by itself in >the living room. I wonder if this caused the stress. These >few days I also sleep in the living room just by myself with >the cat, but the situation isn’t improving. (I don’t think >I can do it for long anyway, or my wife will get upset.)
I’m sorry to hear about your cat. But I have to question the vet for thinking his condition is stress related. Yes, stress can cause problems, but urine in the blood? I notice from your email addy that you are perhaps going to school there in Toronto. Maybe there is a veterinary school nearby where you might be able to get some answers and help for your kitty? I can tell from your post that you love him very much, and I really hope everything turns out okay. >I feel very sad for Germanie because it must feel very uncomfortable… >please help.
That’s why it’s very important to have him diagnosed properly and treated. If you let it go, it may only get worse for him. Good luck and please keep us posted. Lauren =^..^= See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/mickey4paws2000/lst2?.tok=bcSBfAPB.wc8DtTG… =/Mickey%26Meesha&.src=ph
Response:
March 18, 2002
Question:
><snip> The best I can do is bring her into the office while I’m working, >shut the door, and let her have lap-time where she won’t be harassed by > other cats.
You’ve gotten some good advice already. I also have a pariah-ish cat, though it is partly by her own choice. She was outdoors for 6 years before we adopted her. While she loves humans, she could do without the other 5 furry ones. Besides the extra litter boxes and alone time, I’d like to suggest that you consider drugs, at least as a temporary solution. One of our cats gets occasional valium for his anxiety, which helps. But the drug that really helped Misty (our pariah-ish cat) is amitriptyline. According to our vet, and our experience, it has the potential to make a permanent brain chemistry change when it is used for several months. Before we put Misty on it, she was short tempered and very unhappy, limiting her territory to several chairs and one area by a window. Within a month, she was playing and pretty much ignoring the other cats, within her expanded territory. She still won’t go outside the kitchen/dining room area, but she will run around and play, and even occasionally eat with the other cats just a foot or two away. And she is much happier. Misty was on the drugs for about 4 months, and has been off for about 3. The change does seem to be permanent. I understand about not wanting to give your furry up. We love Misty to pieces. When she was so unhappy, we also faced the idea of finding another home for her. Now, we know she is fairly happy, and very much loved. Good luck! Kalynnda
Response:
Cathryn, Sophie is beautiful. Too bad about her problem. I have 5 cats and one that is particularly skittish was having the same problem. You said you tried to re-litter train her, it rang a bell. Here’s what I did with my 10 year old, neutered male, Bijoux and it solved the major problem. I crated him in a large wire dog crate with his own litter pan every night (I noticed he liked to do his deed in the early mornings.) I kept him crated in the bedroom with me and gave him lots of verbal reassurance, so he wouldn’t feel punished. The minute I saw (or heard) him using his litter pan, I would let him out (no matter how much I didn’t want to get out of bed). I did this for about 4 months. It seemed he was willing to use the pan, but wanted a space of his own. Now I have the crate with the pan (in the cat room) and I leave the door tied open and he uses it every morning on his own. It’s cumbersome having the crate, but the alternative was driving me batty, and giving him up wasn’t an option. I haven’t had a problem with him since I noticed that he started going in there on his own. If I catch him sliding back into the bad habit, I will go back to crating him. But I noticed that his personality is improving – more friendly and social with us. I know this is a variation on litter retraining, but I wanted you to know that it worked for me, and Bijoux seems happier. Hang in there, hope this helps. ~ash
Response:
I think this is great advice. I do hope it works for Sophie. Best wishes, — Polonca & Soncek
<snip> The best I can do is bring her into the office while I’m working, shut – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> the door, and let her have lap-time where she won’t be harassed by > other cats. She used to pee on things before I started giving her > "alone-time," but for the last 18 months since I started giving her > that kind of attention she’s been good and not done it. I also make > sure she has time during the day, when I’m not home, when she can be > left alone–I herd the four younger cats into the basement (which is > set up as a kitty playroom), and let her and Miss Baby Strange have > the run of the house.
Response:
>> www.cathryn.sharpe.btinternet.co.uk/sophie.htm > I believe that this problem is a lot more complex than meets the eye and I > am sure that Lee and I are missing something. I would be really grateful if > anyone has any ideas about this problem. I am not sure what the other cats > have against her. She is not aggressive but is polite and well-mannered. > It’s just like that cats have taken a dislike to her and I don’t know why. I > feel so helpless. I have often thought about trying to get her rehomed to > stop the abuse but it would break my heart. > Thanks a lot. > Cathryn, Lee and the cats xxx
Wow, Sophie sure is a pretty kitty. Beautiful colors. It does sound like she’s getting picked on an awful lot, and that she’s not getting enough privacy, especially when trying to use the litter box. Maybe adding a few more litter boxes would help? Maybe a covered one that would hopefully give her more privacy? Or maybe you have a room in the house that you could separate her from the cats that pick on her the most, and give her some of her own private time? She sure is precious, and I understand why you wouldn’t want to rehome her. Mieko
Response:
(Mieko) distracted me with: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> www.cathryn.sharpe.btinternet.co.uk/sophie.htm >> I believe that this problem is a lot more complex than meets the eye and I >> am sure that Lee and I are missing something. I would be really grateful if >> anyone has any ideas about this problem. I am not sure what the other cats >> have against her. She is not aggressive but is polite and well-mannered. >> It’s just like that cats have taken a dislike to her and I don’t know why. I >> feel so helpless. I have often thought about trying to get her rehomed to >> stop the abuse but it would break my heart. >> Thanks a lot. >> Cathryn, Lee and the cats xxx >Wow, Sophie sure is a pretty kitty. Beautiful colors. >It does sound like she’s getting picked on an awful lot, and that she’s not >getting enough privacy, especially when trying to use the litter box. Maybe >adding a few more litter boxes would help? Maybe a covered one that would >hopefully give her more privacy? >Or maybe you have a room in the house that you could separate her from the >cats that pick on her the most, and give her some of her own private time? >She sure is precious, and I understand why you wouldn’t want to rehome her. >Mieko
Sophie’s a beautiful girl; too bad she’s the "pariah" of the bunch. Get enough cats, however, and chances are good one will end up as the outcast. Why? Who knows? Cats establish ‘pecking orders’ that don’t make sense to humans. I have an older tortie girl, Bean, who is in the same position as your Sophie. She gets picked on primarily by Nate (boisterous 20-month-old male) and Martha (already-dominant 6-month-old female), but none of the cats really want anything to do with her and when they do it is never positive. I know Bean isn’t the brightest of cats, but I don’t know why the others reject her. I keep looking for a suitable home for her where she can be the *only* cat and get lots and lots of attention (Hello? Nice retired catloving folks in northwestern Washington State?), but to no avail. The best I can do is bring her into the office while I’m working, shut the door, and let her have lap-time where she won’t be harassed by other cats. She used to pee on things before I started giving her "alone-time," but for the last 18 months since I started giving her that kind of attention she’s been good and not done it. I also make sure she has time during the day, when I’m not home, when she can be left alone–I herd the four younger cats into the basement (which is set up as a kitty playroom), and let her and Miss Baby Strange have the run of the house. If I didn’t have that option, I probably would have given Beanie a room of her own–with catbox, food, toys, etc.–so she could have a safe place to retreat to. Since she gets picked on so much, I’m less worried about whether she’s lonely than whether she’s stressed. I have seven cats. Someday I will no doubt have eleven, but in the meantime I do understand the juggling required to keep that many cats happy. Fortunately, five of them get along just swimmingly or I would have gone nuts long ago. I have a cranky old girl (Baby) and a pariah middle-aged girl (Bean) that have to be catered to, and while the latter is far more of a pain it’s really not so bad. The other cats don’t need your attention (or a space of their own) as much as the pariah does, since they have their own social group. An outcast cat needs much more of your attention to stay sane. If you can at least focus some separate time and space every day towards sheltering her from the rest of the cats, she may turn around. Even giving her a spare bedroom alone during the day, with a box that is totally hers, may help a lot. I hope this helps–it’s hard dealing with the one cat that doesn’t "fit." Let us know how it goes…
Response:
Her picture is so sweet. I’m sure you guys love her to death. But it sure sounds like Sophie is not happy as part of an 11 cat pride. She sounds like she would be far happier as an only, as long as it was someone who would give her lots of time and attention. (So often those who only want one cat really don’t have time for it either.) But if I were to rehome her, I would insist that if it doesn’t resolve the problem and make her happier she comes back. While she may not be happy with the crowd, since she is timid, she might be even more unhappy with a move. Just like some people, some cats seem to be destined to be less than happy with their lot no matter what. Jo
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, yes, it’s me again. I’m sorry to be bothering you all the time with > my cat problems and updates and stuff. I just hope I’m not boring you. I > would like some help with a problem that has been going on for a long time. > I have learned to live with it and put up with consequences but I thought > you guys might have an answer. I hope that, at the end of this message, you > don’t think I’m a scumbag or anything. > I have a cat, Sophie. She is roughly the middle cat out of the eleven, her > and Kittypuss. There are pictures of Sophie at > www.cathryn.sharpe.btinternet.co.uk/sophie.htm > just so you might be a feel for her. > She is a very small cat and always has been. She is not skinny, just petite. > She is constantly picked on by most of the other cats. She can rarely walk > from one place to another without one of the cat having a go at her. Either > Lee or I are usually there and we put a stop to it but picking her up off > the floor or by moving the offending cat. > I don’t know why or when it actually started but one of the cats started > doing poos behing the armchair. We didn’t realise at first until we noticed > a really bad smell. We went investigating and found little piles of poo in a > dark corner of the room, hidden behind the armchair. The carpet was also wet > with wee. > We immediately cleaned the whole area. It happened again. We cleaned up > again. It happened again. We cleaned up again and put newspaper down. At > this point, we didn’t know which cat it was who was doing this. The culprit > started going to the toilet on the newspaper. We cleaned it up and put a > litter tray there. Suddenly, all the cats were behind the archair pooing and > weeing. We were changing that litter tray six and seven times a day! > We moved the armchair and the pooing stopped for a while. Then it started > again where we had moved the chair to. We only found out it was Sophie > because we heard scratching from behind the chair and saw her come out. We > cleaned up the mess and put newspaper down. > We tried re-litter training her. The result is, sometimes she will use the > tray and other times not. In the event of ‘not’, we have to keep changing > the newspaper behind the armchair. > We really don’t know what to do to stop Sophie going to the toilet behind > the armchair. We have thought perhaps she goes there because she doesn’t get > attacked but that doesn’t explain why she sometimes WILL use the litter > tray. She is fine health wise as she was recently at the vet’s for a > check-up. > We love her and fuss her as much as she wants so I don’t think it is an > attention seeking thing. > I believe that this problem is a lot more complex than meets the eye and I > am sure that Lee and I are missing something. I would be really grateful if > anyone has any ideas about this problem. I am not sure what the other cats > have against her. She is not aggressive but is polite and well-mannered. > It’s just like that cats have taken a dislike to her and I don’t know why. I > feel so helpless. I have often thought about trying to get her rehomed to > stop the abuse but it would break my heart. > Thanks a lot. > Cathryn, Lee and the cats xxx
Response:
: She is a very small cat and always has been. She is not skinny, just petite. : She is constantly picked on by most of the other cats. She can rarely walk : from one place to another without one of the cat having a go at her. Either : Lee or I are usually there and we put a stop to it but picking her up off : the floor or by moving the offending cat. : It’s just like that cats have taken a dislike to her and I don’t know why. I : feel so helpless. I have often thought about trying to get her rehomed to : stop the abuse but it would break my heart. If Sophie is happy being abused or on edge, then don’t rehome her. I would probably discipline the other cats so they would not attack her. Certainly, if I were there, they would never dare attack Sophie. Are you doing any disciplining at all? Does not sound as though you are doing anything in this regard. Please consider doing something. I don’t like to hear of cats being bullied. Or people. I had a very large male attack my small feral female. Her fault originally, she attacked him! But no matter. I just look at him now and he goes the other way when I see him making aggressive moves towards my cat. He is not my cat, but someone else’s, if I may speak politically incorrectly now. For discipline methods, I think the others on this newsgroup know more than I. They talk of squirt guns and psychology. Me? I just grabbed him hard and he bit me, hard, to the bone! It was a draw. But after that, rarely, maybe once a month, would he aggressively make a move towards my cat. Just to be safe, I tended to physically keep them apart with gates. But he knows that if he bullies my cat, I am going to bully him. In the end, I even had them coexist in the same room for short periods of time before I moved out with my cat. That was a big achievement.
Response:
> Could very well be that Sofie is ill Cathryn, and perhaps you and Lee aren’t > picking up on it the rest of the cats are? Has she been seen by the vet? > Cats will often eleminate imappropriately as a way to tell us humans they > are ill. > After what what I went through with my previous cat – I suggest you have a > full blood panel done and a thyroid check. > Best wishes. > Judy & Matilda
Thanks for the advice, Judy. Sophie was at the vet’s recently for a check up and she concluded that everything was fine. C#
Response:
said, > Thanks for the advice, Judy. Sophie was at the vet’s recently for a check up > and she concluded that everything was fine.
Okay, then my first thought would be that she is doing her business behind the chair because she feels safer there, as you mentioned. I would try separating litterboxes in different places around the house, making sure that they are secluded, but with good "escape routes". Covered litterboxes may or may not work, but you could also try things like putting a litterbox in a closet, or around a corner where she can see the other cats coming more easily than they can see her. It’s kind of hard to describe what I’m getting at, but probably the easiest way to figure it out is to look around your house for places that are "hidden in plain sight" where she’ll feel comfortable going because she won’t be seen, but where she knows she can take off running if she needs to. Laura — One man’s mundane and boring existence is another man’s Technicolor. -Tick, Strange Days
Response:
> Hello, yes, it’s me again. I’m sorry to be bothering you all the time with > my cat problems and updates and stuff. I just hope I’m not boring you. I > would like some help with a problem that has been going on for a long time. > I have learned to live with it and put up with consequences but I thought > you guys might have an answer. I hope that, at the end of this message, you > don’t think I’m a scumbag or anything. > I have a cat, Sophie. She is roughly the middle cat out of the eleven, her > and Kittypuss. There are pictures of Sophie at > www.cathryn.sharpe.btinternet.co.uk/sophie.htm > just so you might be a feel for her.
A Calico/Tabby with a bit of Siamese? Sure looks a lot like my Matilda. MG> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> She is a very small cat and always has been. She is not skinny, just petite. > She is constantly picked on by most of the other cats. She can rarely walk > from one place to another without one of the cat having a go at her. Either > Lee or I are usually there and we put a stop to it but picking her up off > the floor or by moving the offending cat. > I don’t know why or when it actually started but one of the cats started > doing poos behing the armchair. We didn’t realise at first until we noticed > a really bad smell. We went investigating and found little piles of poo in a > dark corner of the room, hidden behind the armchair. The carpet was also wet > with wee. > We immediately cleaned the whole area. It happened again. We cleaned up > again. It happened again. We cleaned up again and put newspaper down. At > this point, we didn’t know which cat it was who was doing this. The culprit > started going to the toilet on the newspaper. We cleaned it up and put a > litter tray there. Suddenly, all the cats were behind the archair pooing and > weeing. We were changing that litter tray six and seven times a day! > We moved the armchair and the pooing stopped for a while. Then it started > again where we had moved the chair to. We only found out it was Sophie > because we heard scratching from behind the chair and saw her come out. We > cleaned up the mess and put newspaper down. > We tried re-litter training her. The result is, sometimes she will use the > tray and other times not. In the event of ‘not’, we have to keep changing > the newspaper behind the armchair. > We really don’t know what to do to stop Sophie going to the toilet behind > the armchair. We have thought perhaps she goes there because she doesn’t get > attacked but that doesn’t explain why she sometimes WILL use the litter > tray. She is fine health wise as she was recently at the vet’s for a > check-up. > We love her and fuss her as much as she wants so I don’t think it is an > attention seeking thing. > I believe that this problem is a lot more complex than meets the eye and I > am sure that Lee and I are missing something. I would be really grateful if > anyone has any ideas about this problem. I am not sure what the other cats > have against her. She is not aggressive but is polite and well-mannered. > It’s just like that cats have taken a dislike to her and I don’t know why. I > feel so helpless. I have often thought about trying to get her rehomed to > stop the abuse but it would break my heart. > Thanks a lot. > Cathryn, Lee and the cats xxx
Could very well be that Sofie is ill Cathryn, and perhaps you and Lee aren’t picking up on it the rest of the cats are? Has she been seen by the vet? Cats will often eleminate imappropriately as a way to tell us humans they are ill. After what what I went through with my previous cat – I suggest you have a full blood panel done and a thyroid check. Best wishes. Judy & Matilda
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, yes, it’s me again. I’m sorry to be bothering you all the time with > my cat problems and updates and stuff. I just hope I’m not boring you. I > would like some help with a problem that has been going on for a long time. > I have learned to live with it and put up with consequences but I thought > you guys might have an answer. I hope that, at the end of this message, you > don’t think I’m a scumbag or anything. > I have a cat, Sophie. She is roughly the middle cat out of the eleven, her > and Kittypuss. There are pictures of Sophie at > www.cathryn.sharpe.btinternet.co.uk/sophie.htm > just so you might be a feel for her. > She is a very small cat and always has been. She is not skinny, just petite. > She is constantly picked on by most of the other cats. She can rarely walk > from one place to another without one of the cat having a go at her. Either > Lee or I are usually there and we put a stop to it but picking her up off > the floor or by moving the offending cat. > I don’t know why or when it actually started but one of the cats started > doing poos behing the armchair. We didn’t realise at first until we noticed > a really bad smell. We went investigating and found little piles of poo in a > dark corner of the room, hidden behind the armchair. The carpet was also wet > with wee. > We immediately cleaned the whole area. It happened again. We cleaned up > again. It happened again. We cleaned up again and put newspaper down. At > this point, we didn’t know which cat it was who was doing this. The culprit > started going to the toilet on the newspaper. We cleaned it up and put a > litter tray there. Suddenly, all the cats were behind the archair pooing and > weeing. We were changing that litter tray six and seven times a day! > We moved the armchair and the pooing stopped for a while. Then it started > again where we had moved the chair to. We only found out it was Sophie > because we heard scratching from behind the chair and saw her come out. We > cleaned up the mess and put newspaper down. > We tried re-litter training her. The result is, sometimes she will use the > tray and other times not. In the event of ‘not’, we have to keep changing > the newspaper behind the armchair. > We really don’t know what to do to stop Sophie going to the toilet behind > the armchair. We have thought perhaps she goes there because she doesn’t get > attacked but that doesn’t explain why she sometimes WILL use the litter > tray. She is fine health wise as she was recently at the vet’s for a > check-up. > We love her and fuss her as much as she wants so I don’t think it is an > attention seeking thing. > I believe that this problem is a lot more complex than meets the eye and I > am sure that Lee and I are missing something. I would be really grateful if > anyone has any ideas about this problem. I am not sure what the other cats > have against her. She is not aggressive but is polite and well-mannered. > It’s just like that cats have taken a dislike to her and I don’t know why. I > feel so helpless. I have often thought about trying to get her rehomed to > stop the abuse but it would break my heart. > Thanks a lot. > Cathryn, Lee and the cats xxx
Wow. Poor thing! I imagine she uses the box when she feels safe and the chair when she does not! I bet you would benefit from a visit by a behaviourist if you can find one. Christine has had some experience with that. It’s too bad there isn’t *some* way to give her her own room, but I am not sure how you could do that. I think she needs her own "space" so to speak. Karen
Response:
Hello, yes, it’s me again. I’m sorry to be bothering you all the time with my cat problems and updates and stuff. I just hope I’m not boring you. I would like some help with a problem that has been going on for a long time. I have learned to live with it and put up with consequences but I thought you guys might have an answer. I hope that, at the end of this message, you don’t think I’m a scumbag or anything. I have a cat, Sophie. She is roughly the middle cat out of the eleven, her and Kittypuss. There are pictures of Sophie at www.cathryn.sharpe.btinternet.co.uk/sophie.htm just so you might be a feel for her. She is a very small cat and always has been. She is not skinny, just petite. She is constantly picked on by most of the other cats. She can rarely walk from one place to another without one of the cat having a go at her. Either Lee or I are usually there and we put a stop to it but picking her up off the floor or by moving the offending cat. I don’t know why or when it actually started but one of the cats started doing poos behing the armchair. We didn’t realise at first until we noticed a really bad smell. We went investigating and found little piles of poo in a dark corner of the room, hidden behind the armchair. The carpet was also wet with wee. We immediately cleaned the whole area. It happened again. We cleaned up again. It happened again. We cleaned up again and put newspaper down. At this point, we didn’t know which cat it was who was doing this. The culprit started going to the toilet on the newspaper. We cleaned it up and put a litter tray there. Suddenly, all the cats were behind the archair pooing and weeing. We were changing that litter tray six and seven times a day! We moved the armchair and the pooing stopped for a while. Then it started again where we had moved the chair to. We only found out it was Sophie because we heard scratching from behind the chair and saw her come out. We cleaned up the mess and put newspaper down. We tried re-litter training her. The result is, sometimes she will use the tray and other times not. In the event of ‘not’, we have to keep changing the newspaper behind the armchair. We really don’t know what to do to stop Sophie going to the toilet behind the armchair. We have thought perhaps she goes there because she doesn’t get attacked but that doesn’t explain why she sometimes WILL use the litter tray. She is fine health wise as she was recently at the vet’s for a check-up. We love her and fuss her as much as she wants so I don’t think it is an attention seeking thing. I believe that this problem is a lot more complex than meets the eye and I am sure that Lee and I are missing something. I would be really grateful if anyone has any ideas about this problem. I am not sure what the other cats have against her. She is not aggressive but is polite and well-mannered. It’s just like that cats have taken a dislike to her and I don’t know why. I feel so helpless. I have often thought about trying to get her rehomed to stop the abuse but it would break my heart. Thanks a lot. Cathryn, Lee and the cats xxx
Response:
><snip> The best I can do is bring her into the office while I’m working, >shut the door, and let her have lap-time where she won’t be harassed by > other cats.
You’ve gotten some good advice already. I also have a pariah-ish cat, though it is partly by her own choice. She was outdoors for 6 years before we adopted her. While she loves humans, she could do without the other 5 furry ones. Besides the extra litter boxes and alone time, I’d like to suggest that you consider drugs, at least as a temporary solution. One of our cats gets occasional valium for his anxiety, which helps. But the drug that really helped Misty (our pariah-ish cat) is amitriptyline. According to our vet, and our experience, it has the potential to make a permanent brain chemistry change when it is used for several months. Before we put Misty on it, she was short tempered and very unhappy, limiting her territory to several chairs and one area by a window. Within a month, she was playing and pretty much ignoring the other cats, within her expanded territory. She still won’t go outside the kitchen/dining room area, but she will run around and play, and even occasionally eat with the other cats just a foot or two away. And she is much happier. Misty was on the drugs for about 4 months, and has been off for about 3. The change does seem to be permanent. I understand about not wanting to give your furry up. We love Misty to pieces. When she was so unhappy, we also faced the idea of finding another home for her. Now, we know she is fairly happy, and very much loved. Good luck! Kalynnda
Response:
Cathryn, Sophie is beautiful. Too bad about her problem. I have 5 cats and one that is particularly skittish was having the same problem. You said you tried to re-litter train her, it rang a bell. Here’s what I did with my 10 year old, neutered male, Bijoux and it solved the major problem. I crated him in a large wire dog crate with his own litter pan every night (I noticed he liked to do his deed in the early mornings.) I kept him crated in the bedroom with me and gave him lots of verbal reassurance, so he wouldn’t feel punished. The minute I saw (or heard) him using his litter pan, I would let him out (no matter how much I didn’t want to get out of bed). I did this for about 4 months. It seemed he was willing to use the pan, but wanted a space of his own. Now I have the crate with the pan (in the cat room) and I leave the door tied open and he uses it every morning on his own. It’s cumbersome having the crate, but the alternative was driving me batty, and giving him up wasn’t an option. I haven’t had a problem with him since I noticed that he started going in there on his own. If I catch him sliding back into the bad habit, I will go back to crating him. But I noticed that his personality is improving – more friendly and social with us. I know this is a variation on litter retraining, but I wanted you to know that it worked for me, and Bijoux seems happier. Hang in there, hope this helps. ~ash
Response:
I think this is great advice. I do hope it works for Sophie. Best wishes, — Polonca & Soncek
<snip> The best I can do is bring her into the office while I’m working, shut – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> the door, and let her have lap-time where she won’t be harassed by > other cats. She used to pee on things before I started giving her > "alone-time," but for the last 18 months since I started giving her > that kind of attention she’s been good and not done it. I also make > sure she has time during the day, when I’m not home, when she can be > left alone–I herd the four younger cats into the basement (which is > set up as a kitty playroom), and let her and Miss Baby Strange have > the run of the house.
Response:
>> www.cathryn.sharpe.btinternet.co.uk/sophie.htm > I believe that this problem is a lot more complex than meets the eye and I > am sure that Lee and I are missing something. I would be really grateful if > anyone has any ideas about this problem. I am not sure what the other cats > have against her. She is not aggressive but is polite and well-mannered. > It’s just like that cats have taken a dislike to her and I don’t know why. I > feel so helpless. I have often thought about trying to get her rehomed to > stop the abuse but it would break my heart. > Thanks a lot. > Cathryn, Lee and the cats xxx
Wow, Sophie sure is a pretty kitty. Beautiful colors. It does sound like she’s getting picked on an awful lot, and that she’s not getting enough privacy, especially when trying to use the litter box. Maybe adding a few more litter boxes would help? Maybe a covered one that would hopefully give her more privacy? Or maybe you have a room in the house that you could separate her from the cats that pick on her the most, and give her some of her own private time? She sure is precious, and I understand why you wouldn’t want to rehome her. Mieko
Response:
(Mieko) distracted me with: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> www.cathryn.sharpe.btinternet.co.uk/sophie.htm >> I believe that this problem is a lot more complex than meets the eye and I >> am sure that Lee and I are missing something. I would be really grateful if >> anyone has any ideas about this problem. I am not sure what the other cats >> have against her. She is not aggressive but is polite and well-mannered. >> It’s just like that cats have taken a dislike to her and I don’t know why. I >> feel so helpless. I have often thought about trying to get her rehomed to >> stop the abuse but it would break my heart. >> Thanks a lot. >> Cathryn, Lee and the cats xxx >Wow, Sophie sure is a pretty kitty. Beautiful colors. >It does sound like she’s getting picked on an awful lot, and that she’s not >getting enough privacy, especially when trying to use the litter box. Maybe >adding a few more litter boxes would help? Maybe a covered one that would >hopefully give her more privacy? >Or maybe you have a room in the house that you could separate her from the >cats that pick on her the most, and give her some of her own private time? >She sure is precious, and I understand why you wouldn’t want to rehome her. >Mieko
Sophie’s a beautiful girl; too bad she’s the "pariah" of the bunch. Get enough cats, however, and chances are good one will end up as the outcast. Why? Who knows? Cats establish ‘pecking orders’ that don’t make sense to humans. I have an older tortie girl, Bean, who is in the same position as your Sophie. She gets picked on primarily by Nate (boisterous 20-month-old male) and Martha (already-dominant 6-month-old female), but none of the cats really want anything to do with her and when they do it is never positive. I know Bean isn’t the brightest of cats, but I don’t know why the others reject her. I keep looking for a suitable home for her where she can be the *only* cat and get lots and lots of attention (Hello? Nice retired catloving folks in northwestern Washington State?), but to no avail. The best I can do is bring her into the office while I’m working, shut the door, and let her have lap-time where she won’t be harassed by other cats. She used to pee on things before I started giving her "alone-time," but for the last 18 months since I started giving her that kind of attention she’s been good and not done it. I also make sure she has time during the day, when I’m not home, when she can be left alone–I herd the four younger cats into the basement (which is set up as a kitty playroom), and let her and Miss Baby Strange have the run of the house. If I didn’t have that option, I probably would have given Beanie a room of her own–with catbox, food, toys, etc.–so she could have a safe place to retreat to. Since she gets picked on so much, I’m less worried about whether she’s lonely than whether she’s stressed. I have seven cats. Someday I will no doubt have eleven, but in the meantime I do understand the juggling required to keep that many cats happy. Fortunately, five of them get along just swimmingly or I would have gone nuts long ago. I have a cranky old girl (Baby) and a pariah middle-aged girl (Bean) that have to be catered to, and while the latter is far more of a pain it’s really not so bad. The other cats don’t need your attention (or a space of their own) as much as the pariah does, since they have their own social group. An outcast cat needs much more of your attention to stay sane. If you can at least focus some separate time and space every day towards sheltering her from the rest of the cats, she may turn around. Even giving her a spare bedroom alone during the day, with a box that is totally hers, may help a lot. I hope this helps–it’s hard dealing with the one cat that doesn’t "fit." Let us know how it goes…
Response:
Her picture is so sweet. I’m sure you guys love her to death. But it sure sounds like Sophie is not happy as part of an 11 cat pride. She sounds like she would be far happier as an only, as long as it was someone who would give her lots of time and attention. (So often those who only want one cat really don’t have time for it either.) But if I were to rehome her, I would insist that if it doesn’t resolve the problem and make her happier she comes back. While she may not be happy with the crowd, since she is timid, she might be even more unhappy with a move. Just like some people, some cats seem to be destined to be less than happy with their lot no matter what. Jo
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, yes, it’s me again. I’m sorry to be bothering you all the time with > my cat problems and updates and stuff. I just hope I’m not boring you. I > would like some help with a problem that has been going on for a long time. > I have learned to live with it and put up with consequences but I thought > you guys might have an answer. I hope that, at the end of this message, you > don’t think I’m a scumbag or anything. > I have a cat, Sophie. She is roughly the middle cat out of the eleven, her > and Kittypuss. There are pictures of Sophie at > www.cathryn.sharpe.btinternet.co.uk/sophie.htm > just so you might be a feel for her. > She is a very small cat and always has been. She is not skinny, just petite. > She is constantly picked on by most of the other cats. She can rarely walk > from one place to another without one of the cat having a go at her. Either > Lee or I are usually there and we put a stop to it but picking her up off > the floor or by moving the offending cat. > I don’t know why or when it actually started but one of the cats started > doing poos behing the armchair. We didn’t realise at first until we noticed > a really bad smell. We went investigating and found little piles of poo in a > dark corner of the room, hidden behind the armchair. The carpet was also wet > with wee. > We immediately cleaned the whole area. It happened again. We cleaned up > again. It happened again. We cleaned up again and put newspaper down. At > this point, we didn’t know which cat it was who was doing this. The culprit > started going to the toilet on the newspaper. We cleaned it up and put a > litter tray there. Suddenly, all the cats were behind the archair pooing and > weeing. We were changing that litter tray six and seven times a day! > We moved the armchair and the pooing stopped for a while. Then it started > again where we had moved the chair to. We only found out it was Sophie > because we heard scratching from behind the chair and saw her come out. We > cleaned up the mess and put newspaper down. > We tried re-litter training her. The result is, sometimes she will use the > tray and other times not. In the event of ‘not’, we have to keep changing > the newspaper behind the armchair. > We really don’t know what to do to stop Sophie going to the toilet behind > the armchair. We have thought perhaps she goes there because she doesn’t get > attacked but that doesn’t explain why she sometimes WILL use the litter > tray. She is fine health wise as she was recently at the vet’s for a > check-up. > We love her and fuss her as much as she wants so I don’t think it is an > attention seeking thing. > I believe that this problem is a lot more complex than meets the eye and I > am sure that Lee and I are missing something. I would be really grateful if > anyone has any ideas about this problem. I am not sure what the other cats > have against her. She is not aggressive but is polite and well-mannered. > It’s just like that cats have taken a dislike to her and I don’t know why. I > feel so helpless. I have often thought about trying to get her rehomed to > stop the abuse but it would break my heart. > Thanks a lot. > Cathryn, Lee and the cats xxx
Response:
: She is a very small cat and always has been. She is not skinny, just petite. : She is constantly picked on by most of the other cats. She can rarely walk : from one place to another without one of the cat having a go at her. Either : Lee or I are usually there and we put a stop to it but picking her up off : the floor or by moving the offending cat. : It’s just like that cats have taken a dislike to her and I don’t know why. I : feel so helpless. I have often thought about trying to get her rehomed to : stop the abuse but it would break my heart. If Sophie is happy being abused or on edge, then don’t rehome her. I would probably discipline the other cats so they would not attack her. Certainly, if I were there, they would never dare attack Sophie. Are you doing any disciplining at all? Does not sound as though you are doing anything in this regard. Please consider doing something. I don’t like to hear of cats being bullied. Or people. I had a very large male attack my small feral female. Her fault originally, she attacked him! But no matter. I just look at him now and he goes the other way when I see him making aggressive moves towards my cat. He is not my cat, but someone else’s, if I may speak politically incorrectly now. For discipline methods, I think the others on this newsgroup know more than I. They talk of squirt guns and psychology. Me? I just grabbed him hard and he bit me, hard, to the bone! It was a draw. But after that, rarely, maybe once a month, would he aggressively make a move towards my cat. Just to be safe, I tended to physically keep them apart with gates. But he knows that if he bullies my cat, I am going to bully him. In the end, I even had them coexist in the same room for short periods of time before I moved out with my cat. That was a big achievement.
Response:
> Could very well be that Sofie is ill Cathryn, and perhaps you and Lee aren’t > picking up on it the rest of the cats are? Has she been seen by the vet? > Cats will often eleminate imappropriately as a way to tell us humans they > are ill. > After what what I went through with my previous cat – I suggest you have a > full blood panel done and a thyroid check. > Best wishes. > Judy & Matilda
Thanks for the advice, Judy. Sophie was at the vet’s recently for a check up and she concluded that everything was fine. C#
Response:
said, > Thanks for the advice, Judy. Sophie was at the vet’s recently for a check up > and she concluded that everything was fine.
Okay, then my first thought would be that she is doing her business behind the chair because she feels safer there, as you mentioned. I would try separating litterboxes in different places around the house, making sure that they are secluded, but with good "escape routes". Covered litterboxes may or may not work, but you could also try things like putting a litterbox in a closet, or around a corner where she can see the other cats coming more easily than they can see her. It’s kind of hard to describe what I’m getting at, but probably the easiest way to figure it out is to look around your house for places that are "hidden in plain sight" where she’ll feel comfortable going because she won’t be seen, but where she knows she can take off running if she needs to. Laura — One man’s mundane and boring existence is another man’s Technicolor. -Tick, Strange Days
Response:
> Hello, yes, it’s me again. I’m sorry to be bothering you all the time with > my cat problems and updates and stuff. I just hope I’m not boring you. I > would like some help with a problem that has been going on for a long time. > I have learned to live with it and put up with consequences but I thought > you guys might have an answer. I hope that, at the end of this message, you > don’t think I’m a scumbag or anything. > I have a cat, Sophie. She is roughly the middle cat out of the eleven, her > and Kittypuss. There are pictures of Sophie at > www.cathryn.sharpe.btinternet.co.uk/sophie.htm > just so you might be a feel for her.
A Calico/Tabby with a bit of Siamese? Sure looks a lot like my Matilda. MG> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> She is a very small cat and always has been. She is not skinny, just petite. > She is constantly picked on by most of the other cats. She can rarely walk > from one place to another without one of the cat having a go at her. Either > Lee or I are usually there and we put a stop to it but picking her up off > the floor or by moving the offending cat. > I don’t know why or when it actually started but one of the cats started > doing poos behing the armchair. We didn’t realise at first until we noticed > a really bad smell. We went investigating and found little piles of poo in a > dark corner of the room, hidden behind the armchair. The carpet was also wet > with wee. > We immediately cleaned the whole area. It happened again. We cleaned up > again. It happened again. We cleaned up again and put newspaper down. At > this point, we didn’t know which cat it was who was doing this. The culprit > started going to the toilet on the newspaper. We cleaned it up and put a > litter tray there. Suddenly, all the cats were behind the archair pooing and > weeing. We were changing that litter tray six and seven times a day! > We moved the armchair and the pooing stopped for a while. Then it started > again where we had moved the chair to. We only found out it was Sophie > because we heard scratching from behind the chair and saw her come out. We > cleaned up the mess and put newspaper down. > We tried re-litter training her. The result is, sometimes she will use the > tray and other times not. In the event of ‘not’, we have to keep changing > the newspaper behind the armchair. > We really don’t know what to do to stop Sophie going to the toilet behind > the armchair. We have thought perhaps she goes there because she doesn’t get > attacked but that doesn’t explain why she sometimes WILL use the litter > tray. She is fine health wise as she was recently at the vet’s for a > check-up. > We love her and fuss her as much as she wants so I don’t think it is an > attention seeking thing. > I believe that this problem is a lot more complex than meets the eye and I > am sure that Lee and I are missing something. I would be really grateful if > anyone has any ideas about this problem. I am not sure what the other cats > have against her. She is not aggressive but is polite and well-mannered. > It’s just like that cats have taken a dislike to her and I don’t know why. I > feel so helpless. I have often thought about trying to get her rehomed to > stop the abuse but it would break my heart. > Thanks a lot. > Cathryn, Lee and the cats xxx
Could very well be that Sofie is ill Cathryn, and perhaps you and Lee aren’t picking up on it the rest of the cats are? Has she been seen by the vet? Cats will often eleminate imappropriately as a way to tell us humans they are ill. After what what I went through with my previous cat – I suggest you have a full blood panel done and a thyroid check. Best wishes. Judy & Matilda
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, yes, it’s me again. I’m sorry to be bothering you all the time with > my cat problems and updates and stuff. I just hope I’m not boring you. I > would like some help with a problem that has been going on for a long time. > I have learned to live with it and put up with consequences but I thought > you guys might have an answer. I hope that, at the end of this message, you > don’t think I’m a scumbag or anything. > I have a cat, Sophie. She is roughly the middle cat out of the eleven, her > and Kittypuss. There are pictures of Sophie at > www.cathryn.sharpe.btinternet.co.uk/sophie.htm > just so you might be a feel for her. > She is a very small cat and always has been. She is not skinny, just petite. > She is constantly picked on by most of the other cats. She can rarely walk > from one place to another without one of the cat having a go at her. Either > Lee or I are usually there and we put a stop to it but picking her up off > the floor or by moving the offending cat. > I don’t know why or when it actually started but one of the cats started > doing poos behing the armchair. We didn’t realise at first until we noticed > a really bad smell. We went investigating and found little piles of poo in a > dark corner of the room, hidden behind the armchair. The carpet was also wet > with wee. > We immediately cleaned the whole area. It happened again. We cleaned up > again. It happened again. We cleaned up again and put newspaper down. At > this point, we didn’t know which cat it was who was doing this. The culprit > started going to the toilet on the newspaper. We cleaned it up and put a > litter tray there. Suddenly, all the cats were behind the archair pooing and > weeing. We were changing that litter tray six and seven times a day! > We moved the armchair and the pooing stopped for a while. Then it started > again where we had moved the chair to. We only found out it was Sophie > because we heard scratching from behind the chair and saw her come out. We > cleaned up the mess and put newspaper down. > We tried re-litter training her. The result is, sometimes she will use the > tray and other times not. In the event of ‘not’, we have to keep changing > the newspaper behind the armchair. > We really don’t know what to do to stop Sophie going to the toilet behind > the armchair. We have thought perhaps she goes there because she doesn’t get > attacked but that doesn’t explain why she sometimes WILL use the litter > tray. She is fine health wise as she was recently at the vet’s for a > check-up. > We love her and fuss her as much as she wants so I don’t think it is an > attention seeking thing. > I believe that this problem is a lot more complex than meets the eye and I > am sure that Lee and I are missing something. I would be really grateful if > anyone has any ideas about this problem. I am not sure what the other cats > have against her. She is not aggressive but is polite and well-mannered. > It’s just like that cats have taken a dislike to her and I don’t know why. I > feel so helpless. I have often thought about trying to get her rehomed to > stop the abuse but it would break my heart. > Thanks a lot. > Cathryn, Lee and the cats xxx
Wow. Poor thing! I imagine she uses the box when she feels safe and the chair when she does not! I bet you would benefit from a visit by a behaviourist if you can find one. Christine has had some experience with that. It’s too bad there isn’t *some* way to give her her own room, but I am not sure how you could do that. I think she needs her own "space" so to speak. Karen
Response:
Hello, yes, it’s me again. I’m sorry to be bothering you all the time with my cat problems and updates and stuff. I just hope I’m not boring you. I would like some help with a problem that has been going on for a long time. I have learned to live with it and put up with consequences but I thought you guys might have an answer. I hope that, at the end of this message, you don’t think I’m a scumbag or anything. I have a cat, Sophie. She is roughly the middle cat out of the eleven, her and Kittypuss. There are pictures of Sophie at www.cathryn.sharpe.btinternet.co.uk/sophie.htm just so you might be a feel for her. She is a very small cat and always has been. She is not skinny, just petite. She is constantly picked on by most of the other cats. She can rarely walk from one place to another without one of the cat having a go at her. Either Lee or I are usually there and we put a stop to it but picking her up off the floor or by moving the offending cat. I don’t know why or when it actually started but one of the cats started doing poos behing the armchair. We didn’t realise at first until we noticed a really bad smell. We went investigating and found little piles of poo in a dark corner of the room, hidden behind the armchair. The carpet was also wet with wee. We immediately cleaned the whole area. It happened again. We cleaned up again. It happened again. We cleaned up again and put newspaper down. At this point, we didn’t know which cat it was who was doing this. The culprit started going to the toilet on the newspaper. We cleaned it up and put a litter tray there. Suddenly, all the cats were behind the archair pooing and weeing. We were changing that litter tray six and seven times a day! We moved the armchair and the pooing stopped for a while. Then it started again where we had moved the chair to. We only found out it was Sophie because we heard scratching from behind the chair and saw her come out. We cleaned up the mess and put newspaper down. We tried re-litter training her. The result is, sometimes she will use the tray and other times not. In the event of ‘not’, we have to keep changing the newspaper behind the armchair. We really don’t know what to do to stop Sophie going to the toilet behind the armchair. We have thought perhaps she goes there because she doesn’t get attacked but that doesn’t explain why she sometimes WILL use the litter tray. She is fine health wise as she was recently at the vet’s for a check-up. We love her and fuss her as much as she wants so I don’t think it is an attention seeking thing. I believe that this problem is a lot more complex than meets the eye and I am sure that Lee and I are missing something. I would be really grateful if anyone has any ideas about this problem. I am not sure what the other cats have against her. She is not aggressive but is polite and well-mannered. It’s just like that cats have taken a dislike to her and I don’t know why. I feel so helpless. I have often thought about trying to get her rehomed to stop the abuse but it would break my heart. Thanks a lot. Cathryn, Lee and the cats xxx
Response:
><snip> The best I can do is bring her into the office while I’m working, >shut the door, and let her have lap-time where she won’t be harassed by > other cats.
You’ve gotten some good advice already. I also have a pariah-ish cat, though it is partly by her own choice. She was outdoors for 6 years before we adopted her. While she loves humans, she could do without the other 5 furry ones. Besides the extra litter boxes and alone time, I’d like to suggest that you consider drugs, at least as a temporary solution. One of our cats gets occasional valium for his anxiety, which helps. But the drug that really helped Misty (our pariah-ish cat) is amitriptyline. According to our vet, and our experience, it has the potential to make a permanent brain chemistry change when it is used for several months. Before we put Misty on it, she was short tempered and very unhappy, limiting her territory to several chairs and one area by a window. Within a month, she was playing and pretty much ignoring the other cats, within her expanded territory. She still won’t go outside the kitchen/dining room area, but she will run around and play, and even occasionally eat with the other cats just a foot or two away. And she is much happier. Misty was on the drugs for about 4 months, and has been off for about 3. The change does seem to be permanent. I understand about not wanting to give your furry up. We love Misty to pieces. When she was so unhappy, we also faced the idea of finding another home for her. Now, we know she is fairly happy, and very much loved. Good luck! Kalynnda
Response:
Cathryn, Sophie is beautiful. Too bad about her problem. I have 5 cats and one that is particularly skittish was having the same problem. You said you tried to re-litter train her, it rang a bell. Here’s what I did with my 10 year old, neutered male, Bijoux and it solved the major problem. I crated him in a large wire dog crate with his own litter pan every night (I noticed he liked to do his deed in the early mornings.) I kept him crated in the bedroom with me and gave him lots of verbal reassurance, so he wouldn’t feel punished. The minute I saw (or heard) him using his litter pan, I would let him out (no matter how much I didn’t want to get out of bed). I did this for about 4 months. It seemed he was willing to use the pan, but wanted a space of his own. Now I have the crate with the pan (in the cat room) and I leave the door tied open and he uses it every morning on his own. It’s cumbersome having the crate, but the alternative was driving me batty, and giving him up wasn’t an option. I haven’t had a problem with him since I noticed that he started going in there on his own. If I catch him sliding back into the bad habit, I will go back to crating him. But I noticed that his personality is improving – more friendly and social with us. I know this is a variation on litter retraining, but I wanted you to know that it worked for me, and Bijoux seems happier. Hang in there, hope this helps. ~ash
Response:
I think this is great advice. I do hope it works for Sophie. Best wishes, — Polonca & Soncek
<snip> The best I can do is bring her into the office while I’m working, shut – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> the door, and let her have lap-time where she won’t be harassed by > other cats. She used to pee on things before I started giving her > "alone-time," but for the last 18 months since I started giving her > that kind of attention she’s been good and not done it. I also make > sure she has time during the day, when I’m not home, when she can be > left alone–I herd the four younger cats into the basement (which is > set up as a kitty playroom), and let her and Miss Baby Strange have > the run of the house.
Response:
>> www.cathryn.sharpe.btinternet.co.uk/sophie.htm > I believe that this problem is a lot more complex than meets the eye and I > am sure that Lee and I are missing something. I would be really grateful if > anyone has any ideas about this problem. I am not sure what the other cats > have against her. She is not aggressive but is polite and well-mannered. > It’s just like that cats have taken a dislike to her and I don’t know why. I > feel so helpless. I have often thought about trying to get her rehomed to > stop the abuse but it would break my heart. > Thanks a lot. > Cathryn, Lee and the cats xxx
Wow, Sophie sure is a pretty kitty. Beautiful colors. It does sound like she’s getting picked on an awful lot, and that she’s not getting enough privacy, especially when trying to use the litter box. Maybe adding a few more litter boxes would help? Maybe a covered one that would hopefully give her more privacy? Or maybe you have a room in the house that you could separate her from the cats that pick on her the most, and give her some of her own private time? She sure is precious, and I understand why you wouldn’t want to rehome her. Mieko
Response:
(Mieko) distracted me with: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> www.cathryn.sharpe.btinternet.co.uk/sophie.htm >> I believe that this problem is a lot more complex than meets the eye and I >> am sure that Lee and I are missing something. I would be really grateful if >> anyone has any ideas about this problem. I am not sure what the other cats >> have against her. She is not aggressive but is polite and well-mannered. >> It’s just like that cats have taken a dislike to her and I don’t know why. I >> feel so helpless. I have often thought about trying to get her rehomed to >> stop the abuse but it would break my heart. >> Thanks a lot. >> Cathryn, Lee and the cats xxx >Wow, Sophie sure is a pretty kitty. Beautiful colors. >It does sound like she’s getting picked on an awful lot, and that she’s not >getting enough privacy, especially when trying to use the litter box. Maybe >adding a few more litter boxes would help? Maybe a covered one that would >hopefully give her more privacy? >Or maybe you have a room in the house that you could separate her from the >cats that pick on her the most, and give her some of her own private time? >She sure is precious, and I understand why you wouldn’t want to rehome her. >Mieko
Sophie’s a beautiful girl; too bad she’s the "pariah" of the bunch. Get enough cats, however, and chances are good one will end up as the outcast. Why? Who knows? Cats establish ‘pecking orders’ that don’t make sense to humans. I have an older tortie girl, Bean, who is in the same position as your Sophie. She gets picked on primarily by Nate (boisterous 20-month-old male) and Martha (already-dominant 6-month-old female), but none of the cats really want anything to do with her and when they do it is never positive. I know Bean isn’t the brightest of cats, but I don’t know why the others reject her. I keep looking for a suitable home for her where she can be the *only* cat and get lots and lots of attention (Hello? Nice retired catloving folks in northwestern Washington State?), but to no avail. The best I can do is bring her into the office while I’m working, shut the door, and let her have lap-time where she won’t be harassed by other cats. She used to pee on things before I started giving her "alone-time," but for the last 18 months since I started giving her that kind of attention she’s been good and not done it. I also make sure she has time during the day, when I’m not home, when she can be left alone–I herd the four younger cats into the basement (which is set up as a kitty playroom), and let her and Miss Baby Strange have the run of the house. If I didn’t have that option, I probably would have given Beanie a room of her own–with catbox, food, toys, etc.–so she could have a safe place to retreat to. Since she gets picked on so much, I’m less worried about whether she’s lonely than whether she’s stressed. I have seven cats. Someday I will no doubt have eleven, but in the meantime I do understand the juggling required to keep that many cats happy. Fortunately, five of them get along just swimmingly or I would have gone nuts long ago. I have a cranky old girl (Baby) and a pariah middle-aged girl (Bean) that have to be catered to, and while the latter is far more of a pain it’s really not so bad. The other cats don’t need your attention (or a space of their own) as much as the pariah does, since they have their own social group. An outcast cat needs much more of your attention to stay sane. If you can at least focus some separate time and space every day towards sheltering her from the rest of the cats, she may turn around. Even giving her a spare bedroom alone during the day, with a box that is totally hers, may help a lot. I hope this helps–it’s hard dealing with the one cat that doesn’t "fit." Let us know how it goes…
Response:
Her picture is so sweet. I’m sure you guys love her to death. But it sure sounds like Sophie is not happy as part of an 11 cat pride. She sounds like she would be far happier as an only, as long as it was someone who would give her lots of time and attention. (So often those who only want one cat really don’t have time for it either.) But if I were to rehome her, I would insist that if it doesn’t resolve the problem and make her happier she comes back. While she may not be happy with the crowd, since she is timid, she might be even more unhappy with a move. Just like some people, some cats seem to be destined to be less than happy with their lot no matter what. Jo
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, yes, it’s me again. I’m sorry to be bothering you all the time with > my cat problems and updates and stuff. I just hope I’m not boring you. I > would like some help with a problem that has been going on for a long time. > I have learned to live with it and put up with consequences but I thought > you guys might have an answer. I hope that, at the end of this message, you > don’t think I’m a scumbag or anything. > I have a cat, Sophie. She is roughly the middle cat out of the eleven, her > and Kittypuss. There are pictures of Sophie at > www.cathryn.sharpe.btinternet.co.uk/sophie.htm > just so you might be a feel for her. > She is a very small cat and always has been. She is not skinny, just petite. > She is constantly picked on by most of the other cats. She can rarely walk > from one place to another without one of the cat having a go at her. Either > Lee or I are usually there and we put a stop to it but picking her up off > the floor or by moving the offending cat. > I don’t know why or when it actually started but one of the cats started > doing poos behing the armchair. We didn’t realise at first until we noticed > a really bad smell. We went investigating and found little piles of poo in a > dark corner of the room, hidden behind the armchair. The carpet was also wet > with wee. > We immediately cleaned the whole area. It happened again. We cleaned up > again. It happened again. We cleaned up again and put newspaper down. At > this point, we didn’t know which cat it was who was doing this. The culprit > started going to the toilet on the newspaper. We cleaned it up and put a > litter tray there. Suddenly, all the cats were behind the archair pooing and > weeing. We were changing that litter tray six and seven times a day! > We moved the armchair and the pooing stopped for a while. Then it started > again where we had moved the chair to. We only found out it was Sophie > because we heard scratching from behind the chair and saw her come out. We > cleaned up the mess and put newspaper down. > We tried re-litter training her. The result is, sometimes she will use the > tray and other times not. In the event of ‘not’, we have to keep changing > the newspaper behind the armchair. > We really don’t know what to do to stop Sophie going to the toilet behind > the armchair. We have thought perhaps she goes there because she doesn’t get > attacked but that doesn’t explain why she sometimes WILL use the litter > tray. She is fine health wise as she was recently at the vet’s for a > check-up. > We love her and fuss her as much as she wants so I don’t think it is an > attention seeking thing. > I believe that this problem is a lot more complex than meets the eye and I > am sure that Lee and I are missing something. I would be really grateful if > anyone has any ideas about this problem. I am not sure what the other cats > have against her. She is not aggressive but is polite and well-mannered. > It’s just like that cats have taken a dislike to her and I don’t know why. I > feel so helpless. I have often thought about trying to get her rehomed to > stop the abuse but it would break my heart. > Thanks a lot. > Cathryn, Lee and the cats xxx
Response:
: She is a very small cat and always has been. She is not skinny, just petite. : She is constantly picked on by most of the other cats. She can rarely walk : from one place to another without one of the cat having a go at her. Either : Lee or I are usually there and we put a stop to it but picking her up off : the floor or by moving the offending cat. : It’s just like that cats have taken a dislike to her and I don’t know why. I : feel so helpless. I have often thought about trying to get her rehomed to : stop the abuse but it would break my heart. If Sophie is happy being abused or on edge, then don’t rehome her. I would probably discipline the other cats so they would not attack her. Certainly, if I were there, they would never dare attack Sophie. Are you doing any disciplining at all? Does not sound as though you are doing anything in this regard. Please consider doing something. I don’t like to hear of cats being bullied. Or people. I had a very large male attack my small feral female. Her fault originally, she attacked him! But no matter. I just look at him now and he goes the other way when I see him making aggressive moves towards my cat. He is not my cat, but someone else’s, if I may speak politically incorrectly now. For discipline methods, I think the others on this newsgroup know more than I. They talk of squirt guns and psychology. Me? I just grabbed him hard and he bit me, hard, to the bone! It was a draw. But after that, rarely, maybe once a month, would he aggressively make a move towards my cat. Just to be safe, I tended to physically keep them apart with gates. But he knows that if he bullies my cat, I am going to bully him. In the end, I even had them coexist in the same room for short periods of time before I moved out with my cat. That was a big achievement.
Response:
> Could very well be that Sofie is ill Cathryn, and perhaps you and Lee aren’t > picking up on it the rest of the cats are? Has she been seen by the vet? > Cats will often eleminate imappropriately as a way to tell us humans they > are ill. > After what what I went through with my previous cat – I suggest you have a > full blood panel done and a thyroid check. > Best wishes. > Judy & Matilda
Thanks for the advice, Judy. Sophie was at the vet’s recently for a check up and she concluded that everything was fine. C#
Response:
said, > Thanks for the advice, Judy. Sophie was at the vet’s recently for a check up > and she concluded that everything was fine.
Okay, then my first thought would be that she is doing her business behind the chair because she feels safer there, as you mentioned. I would try separating litterboxes in different places around the house, making sure that they are secluded, but with good "escape routes". Covered litterboxes may or may not work, but you could also try things like putting a litterbox in a closet, or around a corner where she can see the other cats coming more easily than they can see her. It’s kind of hard to describe what I’m getting at, but probably the easiest way to figure it out is to look around your house for places that are "hidden in plain sight" where she’ll feel comfortable going because she won’t be seen, but where she knows she can take off running if she needs to. Laura — One man’s mundane and boring existence is another man’s Technicolor. -Tick, Strange Days
Response:
> Hello, yes, it’s me again. I’m sorry to be bothering you all the time with > my cat problems and updates and stuff. I just hope I’m not boring you. I > would like some help with a problem that has been going on for a long time. > I have learned to live with it and put up with consequences but I thought > you guys might have an answer. I hope that, at the end of this message, you > don’t think I’m a scumbag or anything. > I have a cat, Sophie. She is roughly the middle cat out of the eleven, her > and Kittypuss. There are pictures of Sophie at > www.cathryn.sharpe.btinternet.co.uk/sophie.htm > just so you might be a feel for her.
A Calico/Tabby with a bit of Siamese? Sure looks a lot like my Matilda. MG> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> She is a very small cat and always has been. She is not skinny, just petite. > She is constantly picked on by most of the other cats. She can rarely walk > from one place to another without one of the cat having a go at her. Either > Lee or I are usually there and we put a stop to it but picking her up off > the floor or by moving the offending cat. > I don’t know why or when it actually started but one of the cats started > doing poos behing the armchair. We didn’t realise at first until we noticed > a really bad smell. We went investigating and found little piles of poo in a > dark corner of the room, hidden behind the armchair. The carpet was also wet > with wee. > We immediately cleaned the whole area. It happened again. We cleaned up > again. It happened again. We cleaned up again and put newspaper down. At > this point, we didn’t know which cat it was who was doing this. The culprit > started going to the toilet on the newspaper. We cleaned it up and put a > litter tray there. Suddenly, all the cats were behind the archair pooing and > weeing. We were changing that litter tray six and seven times a day! > We moved the armchair and the pooing stopped for a while. Then it started > again where we had moved the chair to. We only found out it was Sophie > because we heard scratching from behind the chair and saw her come out. We > cleaned up the mess and put newspaper down. > We tried re-litter training her. The result is, sometimes she will use the > tray and other times not. In the event of ‘not’, we have to keep changing > the newspaper behind the armchair. > We really don’t know what to do to stop Sophie going to the toilet behind > the armchair. We have thought perhaps she goes there because she doesn’t get > attacked but that doesn’t explain why she sometimes WILL use the litter > tray. She is fine health wise as she was recently at the vet’s for a > check-up. > We love her and fuss her as much as she wants so I don’t think it is an > attention seeking thing. > I believe that this problem is a lot more complex than meets the eye and I > am sure that Lee and I are missing something. I would be really grateful if > anyone has any ideas about this problem. I am not sure what the other cats > have against her. She is not aggressive but is polite and well-mannered. > It’s just like that cats have taken a dislike to her and I don’t know why. I > feel so helpless. I have often thought about trying to get her rehomed to > stop the abuse but it would break my heart. > Thanks a lot. > Cathryn, Lee and the cats xxx
Could very well be that Sofie is ill Cathryn, and perhaps you and Lee aren’t picking up on it the rest of the cats are? Has she been seen by the vet? Cats will often eleminate imappropriately as a way to tell us humans they are ill. After what what I went through with my previous cat – I suggest you have a full blood panel done and a thyroid check. Best wishes. Judy & Matilda
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, yes, it’s me again. I’m sorry to be bothering you all the time with > my cat problems and updates and stuff. I just hope I’m not boring you. I > would like some help with a problem that has been going on for a long time. > I have learned to live with it and put up with consequences but I thought > you guys might have an answer. I hope that, at the end of this message, you > don’t think I’m a scumbag or anything. > I have a cat, Sophie. She is roughly the middle cat out of the eleven, her > and Kittypuss. There are pictures of Sophie at > www.cathryn.sharpe.btinternet.co.uk/sophie.htm > just so you might be a feel for her. > She is a very small cat and always has been. She is not skinny, just petite. > She is constantly picked on by most of the other cats. She can rarely walk > from one place to another without one of the cat having a go at her. Either > Lee or I are usually there and we put a stop to it but picking her up off > the floor or by moving the offending cat. > I don’t know why or when it actually started but one of the cats started > doing poos behing the armchair. We didn’t realise at first until we noticed > a really bad smell. We went investigating and found little piles of poo in a > dark corner of the room, hidden behind the armchair. The carpet was also wet > with wee. > We immediately cleaned the whole area. It happened again. We cleaned up > again. It happened again. We cleaned up again and put newspaper down. At > this point, we didn’t know which cat it was who was doing this. The culprit > started going to the toilet on the newspaper. We cleaned it up and put a > litter tray there. Suddenly, all the cats were behind the archair pooing and > weeing. We were changing that litter tray six and seven times a day! > We moved the armchair and the pooing stopped for a while. Then it started > again where we had moved the chair to. We only found out it was Sophie > because we heard scratching from behind the chair and saw her come out. We > cleaned up the mess and put newspaper down. > We tried re-litter training her. The result is, sometimes she will use the > tray and other times not. In the event of ‘not’, we have to keep changing > the newspaper behind the armchair. > We really don’t know what to do to stop Sophie going to the toilet behind > the armchair. We have thought perhaps she goes there because she doesn’t get > attacked but that doesn’t explain why she sometimes WILL use the litter > tray. She is fine health wise as she was recently at the vet’s for a > check-up. > We love her and fuss her as much as she wants so I don’t think it is an > attention seeking thing. > I believe that this problem is a lot more complex than meets the eye and I > am sure that Lee and I are missing something. I would be really grateful if > anyone has any ideas about this problem. I am not sure what the other cats > have against her. She is not aggressive but is polite and well-mannered. > It’s just like that cats have taken a dislike to her and I don’t know why. I > feel so helpless. I have often thought about trying to get her rehomed to > stop the abuse but it would break my heart. > Thanks a lot. > Cathryn, Lee and the cats xxx
Wow. Poor thing! I imagine she uses the box when she feels safe and the chair when she does not! I bet you would benefit from a visit by a behaviourist if you can find one. Christine has had some experience with that. It’s too bad there isn’t *some* way to give her her own room, but I am not sure how you could do that. I think she needs her own "space" so to speak. Karen
Response:
Hello, yes, it’s me again. I’m sorry to be bothering you all the time with my cat problems and updates and stuff. I just hope I’m not boring you. I would like some help with a problem that has been going on for a long time. I have learned to live with it and put up with consequences but I thought you guys might have an answer. I hope that, at the end of this message, you don’t think I’m a scumbag or anything. I have a cat, Sophie. She is roughly the middle cat out of the eleven, her and Kittypuss. There are pictures of Sophie at www.cathryn.sharpe.btinternet.co.uk/sophie.htm just so you might be a feel for her. She is a very small cat and always has been. She is not skinny, just petite. She is constantly picked on by most of the other cats. She can rarely walk from one place to another without one of the cat having a go at her. Either Lee or I are usually there and we put a stop to it but picking her up off the floor or by moving the offending cat. I don’t know why or when it actually started but one of the cats started doing poos behing the armchair. We didn’t realise at first until we noticed a really bad smell. We went investigating and found little piles of poo in a dark corner of the room, hidden behind the armchair. The carpet was also wet with wee. We immediately cleaned the whole area. It happened again. We cleaned up again. It happened again. We cleaned up again and put newspaper down. At this point, we didn’t know which cat it was who was doing this. The culprit started going to the toilet on the newspaper. We cleaned it up and put a litter tray there. Suddenly, all the cats were behind the archair pooing and weeing. We were changing that litter tray six and seven times a day! We moved the armchair and the pooing stopped for a while. Then it started again where we had moved the chair to. We only found out it was Sophie because we heard scratching from behind the chair and saw her come out. We cleaned up the mess and put newspaper down. We tried re-litter training her. The result is, sometimes she will use the tray and other times not. In the event of ‘not’, we have to keep changing the newspaper behind the armchair. We really don’t know what to do to stop Sophie going to the toilet behind the armchair. We have thought perhaps she goes there because she doesn’t get attacked but that doesn’t explain why she sometimes WILL use the litter tray. She is fine health wise as she was recently at the vet’s for a check-up. We love her and fuss her as much as she wants so I don’t think it is an attention seeking thing. I believe that this problem is a lot more complex than meets the eye and I am sure that Lee and I are missing something. I would be really grateful if anyone has any ideas about this problem. I am not sure what the other cats have against her. She is not aggressive but is polite and well-mannered. It’s just like that cats have taken a dislike to her and I don’t know why. I feel so helpless. I have often thought about trying to get her rehomed to stop the abuse but it would break my heart. Thanks a lot. Cathryn, Lee and the cats xxx
Response:
February 4, 2002
Question:
Dear friends, Its been about 3 years that I have been suffering from chronic headaches, anxiety and depression. I have been put on various anti depressants – first Serzone (which I could not tolerate), Remeron (which caused enormous weight gain), Amitriptyline (same thing) finally Zoloft which I was on for about 1 1/2 years. It was a miracle and it enabled me to work and get back into life. Then I got married and the sexual side effects (no libido, no orgasm) were horrible. My pcp put me on Celexa hoping it would help but it didn’t. He tried Well butrin and I could not tolerate that (a pity, since I heard that Wellbutrin has a low to no effect on sex drive). My new doctor had me wean off the Celexa to see whether it made that much of a difference. I have been off it for a month or so. It has made a little difference in my libido – but not nearly enough. I am so worried about my marriage, my wife is very understanding. She wants me to be happy before anything else. But I am worried. In the meantime, after this last month of no Celexa, I now feel irritable, anxious and cannot concentrate on work. I don’t know what to do. Going back on an SSRI would mean the same problem. But what am I to do ? It seems such an unfair choice. My doctor told me that sexual problems are common with antidepressants. Please share your experiences. How did you cope when you were married and faced this ? What did you do to overcome this ? Thanks. — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:
Response:
<snip> > My doctor told me that sexual problems are common with antidepressants. > Please share your experiences. How did you cope when you were married > and faced this ? What did you do to overcome this ?
Yes, sexual problems are common with antidepressants. I have a suggestion for dealing with this, which you’re not going to particularly like I suspect. Sexual problems are also a part of depression. So in some sense the choice you have is to be depressed and not have sex or to not be depressed and not have sex. I think that your wife would probably prefer that you not be depressed and not have sex, and that’s probably what you would prefer as well. Depression is also very cruel to our partners. The depression itself can kill your relationship if you’re not careful about it. I know that my partner by far prefers that I take the medication that relieves at least some of my depression, even if it eliminates my libido and such. If your partner is saying that it is ok with her for your libido to be very low, than there’s really no problem — except the one you’re creating. May I suggest a little counselling for both of you? Not anything long term, just a couple of sessions about dealing with depression in your marriage. And/or individual counselling may help you to accept the situation, and may also help your wife learn about depression and living with a depressed person. My partner went for a couple of sessions with someone my doctor recommended after I nearly attempted suicide, just to learn about the illness and how to take care of herself while taking care of me and living with my depression. I believe that this helped her quite a bit, and certainly the therapy I do on my own helps me a great deal. Bright blessings. Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome. – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664
Response:
December 25, 2001
Previous page