Doxepin (Sinepin) | Tricyclic Antidepressants

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Pain???Help!!!

Question:

Hi, Sorry I didn’t write out specifics on my last post, I got interrupted. I was diagnosed with endo about 4 years ago. Have been through 3 laparoscopies, with 2 of them finding endo. The last one I had this past Feb, they found no endo. So my dr sent me to a pain clinic. He has said that it is a nerve down in the pelvic area. I can’t remember the name of it. He said that it was probably aggravated during one of my laps. I have tried: Neurontin, Amitryptiline, Trazadone, Zonagran and currently am on Doxepin. I have had 1 or 2 side effects with all to where I could only handle them a couple of weeks. I just started Doxepin, so I am can’t say anything on that yet. I am currently taking Lortab for pain. I am trying to come up with something else though. Well, I hope this wasn’t too long for you. Thanks for writing back to me on my previous post. Hope to hear from you again. Bessie

Response:

methadone… bob

Response:

HMMM, My doc is my pelvic pain specialist he wants to give the pain meds. So I let him. Wondering if a Luna might work for you. My doc shut off some of the nerves in that area. I hate endo. At first i wanted a diagnosis to know why I was in pain. Now I have a diagnosis and now I do not want the diagnosis. I know it is sick sick sick. Mine is treating me with narcotics we go back and forth duragesic patch and mepergan. I like mepergan better. So we are sticking with that for a while now. All those did nothing for me, and it was waste of my time and my insurance money. He gave up real fast like though. Bonner

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > Sorry I didn’t write out specifics on my last post, I got interrupted. > I was diagnosed with endo about 4 years ago. Have been through 3 > laparoscopies, with 2 of them finding endo. The last one I had this past > Feb, they found no endo. So my dr sent me to a pain clinic. He has > said that it is a nerve down in the pelvic area. I can’t remember the > name of it. He said that it was probably aggravated during one of my > laps. > I have tried: Neurontin, Amitryptiline, Trazadone, Zonagran and > currently am on Doxepin. I have had 1 or 2 side effects with all to > where I could only handle them a couple of weeks. I just started > Doxepin, so I am can’t say anything on that yet. > I am currently taking Lortab for pain. I am trying to come up with > something else though. > Well, I hope this wasn’t too long for you. Thanks for writing back to > me on my previous post. Hope to hear from you again. > Bessie

Response:

What is mepergan? My dr just told me about freezing a nerve. Have you heard of that? He has never done it before. Can I ask if you have any children? That is a big thing for me. I used to be only focused on getting pregnant. Now I am focused on being pain free. Thanks for your input. Bessie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > HMMM, My doc is my pelvic pain specialist he wants to give the pain meds. > So I let him. Wondering if a Luna might work for you. My doc shut off some > of the nerves in that area. I hate endo. At first i wanted a diagnosis to > know why I was in pain. Now I have a diagnosis and now I do not want the > diagnosis. I know it is sick sick sick. Mine is treating me with narcotics > we go back and forth duragesic patch and mepergan. I like mepergan better. > So we are sticking with that for a while now. All those did nothing for me, > and it was waste of my time and my insurance money. He gave up real fast > like though. > Bonner > Hi, > Sorry I didn’t write out specifics on my last post, I got interrupted. > I was diagnosed with endo about 4 years ago. Have been through 3 > laparoscopies, with 2 of them finding endo. The last one I had this past > Feb, they found no endo. So my dr sent me to a pain clinic. He has > said that it is a nerve down in the pelvic area. I can’t remember the > name of it. He said that it was probably aggravated during one of my > laps. > I have tried: Neurontin, Amitryptiline, Trazadone, Zonagran and > currently am on Doxepin. I have had 1 or 2 side effects with all to > where I could only handle them a couple of weeks. I just started > Doxepin, so I am can’t say anything on that yet. > I am currently taking Lortab for pain. I am trying to come up with > something else though. > Well, I hope this wasn’t too long for you. Thanks for writing back to > me on my previous post. Hope to hear from you again. > Bessie

Response:

Bessie, Demerol and phenergan (Mepergan). I do not know about freezing the nerve. I just had Luna done 1 1/2 years ago. As far as having children we have not been successful. There is a endometriosis group. I have had a total of 4 pregnancies. None went to term. Last time from what I heard I had 3 babies inside me before I started siezuring and stroked. I lost them though that was in 2000. Many have gone on to have children though. It is not a instance you can not have children. My Mom had endo and my sister had endo both of them had children. All depends on the extent of it though. Bonner

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What is mepergan? My dr just told me about freezing a nerve. Have you heard of > that? He has never done it before. Can I ask if you have any children? > That is a big thing for me. I used to be only focused on getting pregnant. Now > I am focused on being pain free. > Thanks for your input. > Bessie > HMMM, My doc is my pelvic pain specialist he wants to give the pain meds. > So I let him. Wondering if a Luna might work for you. My doc shut off some > of the nerves in that area. I hate endo. At first i wanted a diagnosis to > know why I was in pain. Now I have a diagnosis and now I do not want the > diagnosis. I know it is sick sick sick. Mine is treating me with narcotics > we go back and forth duragesic patch and mepergan. I like mepergan better. > So we are sticking with that for a while now. All those did nothing for me, > and it was waste of my time and my insurance money. He gave up real fast > like though. > Bonner > > Hi, > > Sorry I didn’t write out specifics on my last post, I got interrupted. > > I was diagnosed with endo about 4 years ago. Have been through 3 > > laparoscopies, with 2 of them finding endo. The last one I had this past > > Feb, they found no endo. So my dr sent me to a pain clinic. He has > > said that it is a nerve down in the pelvic area. I can’t remember the > > name of it. He said that it was probably aggravated during one of my > > laps. > > I have tried: Neurontin, Amitryptiline, Trazadone, Zonagran and > > currently am on Doxepin. I have had 1 or 2 side effects with all to > > where I could only handle them a couple of weeks. I just started > > Doxepin, so I am can’t say anything on that yet. > > I am currently taking Lortab for pain. I am trying to come up with > > something else though. > > Well, I hope this wasn’t too long for you. Thanks for writing back to > > me on my previous post. Hope to hear from you again. > > Bessie

Response:

I had a LONG email typed to this, so I will do it again later….grrrr…I hit the wrong key and it wouldn’t undo. I HATE that. Nikki ******* I am who I am Your approval is neither Desired nor required ******* "When you throw mud at someone, remember you are the one who is losing ground." ******* "He that can’t endure the bad will not live to see the good." *******

Response:

Remeron

Question:

I am on Remeron for about 3 weeks, But it don’t seem to be helping my depression. I have also on lithium to augment the effect of Remeron. Any Help?

Response:

: I am on Remeron for about 3 weeks, But it don’t seem to be helping my : depression. I have also on lithium to augment the effect of Remeron. Any : Help? Dose?

Response:

> I am on Remeron for about 3 weeks, But it don’t seem to be helping my > depression. I have also on lithium to augment the effect of Remeron. Any > Help?

I’ve had great results with Zoloft 100mg, though I wasn’t bipolar. — Regards, .

Response:

Aloha, Just curious about folks experience with Remeron. I have taken s.s.r.i’s off and on for ten yrs. Started having more migraine headaches that would not respond well to medication. Keep switching anti-depessants to find one that won’t cause more headaches. Thanks for you thoughts on this. And you might email me directly at

Response:

Hi Larry and Welcome to the ng, > Just curious about folks experience with Remeron. I have taken > s.s.r.i’s off and on for ten yrs. Started having more migraine > headaches that would not respond well to medication. Keep switching > anti-depessants to find one that won’t cause more headaches. Thanks > for you thoughts on this. And you might email me directly at

Headache is not listed as a side effect for Remeron: CNS: Somnolence, dizziness, activation of mania or hypomania, > suicidal ideation, sedation, drowsiness, abnormal dreams, abnormal > thinking, tremor, confusion, hypesthesia, apathy, depression, > hypokinesia, vertigo, twitching, agitation, anxiety, amnesia, > hyperkinesia, paresthesia, ataxia, delirium, delusions, > depersonalization, dyskinesia, extrapyramidal syndrome, increased > libido, abnormal coordination, dysarthria, hallucinations, neurosis, > dystonia, hostility, increased reflexes, emotional lability, euphoria, > paranoid reaction.

Hope this AD will be effective for you. Peace, Lynda

Response:

Hello all, I like to learn much about Remeron. could you help me out by suggesting websites? I found something about it on RxList.

Response:

http://biopsychiatry.com/mirtaz.html http://www.druginfonet.com/faq/faqremer.htm http://www.neuropharmacology.com/ (remeron=mirtazapine) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello all, >I like to learn much about Remeron. could you help me out by suggesting >websites? I found something about it on RxList.

Response:

i had a very bad experience, and went from 145 to 185lbs in 2 weeks. I could not wake up in the morning. joe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hello all, > I like to learn much about Remeron. could you help me out by suggesting > websites? I found something about it on RxList.

Response:

I have Absolutely nothing positive to say about Remeron. I took it about a year ago and it only made my depression worse. I tried it over a long time in different doses 15-45 mg.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> i had a very bad experience, and went from 145 to 185lbs in 2 weeks. > I could not wake up in the morning. > joe > Hello all, > I like to learn much about Remeron. could you help me out by suggesting > websites? I found something about it on RxList.

Response:

A doctor once gave me Remeron to help me sleep (before the ADD thing). I liked it, and it worked. There were about three days after starting n 30mg that it was really hard to get out of bed. You want to stay there, and its easy to sleep the day away. After this passed, I had no problems at all with it. I fell asleep at a normal time and woke up very refreshed at a normal time. Also, I’ve experimented with the dose after being off of it for a while. I found that taking about 7.5 mg gave me one day of feeling tired, and I could take 15 to 30 mg on other days without feeling tired the next day. I think Remeron is a good med. I don’t know how effective it is for depression, but it works wonders for insomnia. Trazadone was effective at 50mg until recently.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am new to this group. Been battling depression just over 1 1/2 > years. > I’ve tried Prozac, Paxil, Effexor and Luvox and a couple other > medications I can’t even remember. Crashed majorly 3 times in 6 > months. Anyway, I have been taking Serzone for a year. I liked it at > first but I don’t know that I am completely satisfied. For the last 9 > months I have been cycling (first at 400 mg./day…now at 600). I > will have 3-4 days of survival/some productivity and 3-4 days of rage. > I have just now started to seriously track it, but have definite > agreement from my husband. > I don’t like being on this roller coaster anymore. Have started to > investigate a new AD called Remeron. Came up with very little…my > pharmacist has never even heard of it. Is there anyone out there who > knows anything about this drug? All help appreciated.

Response:

less sexual side effects than ssri’s, but may cause sedation or weight gain

Response:

hi, does anyone know if welbutrin would go well with remeron. remeron by itself is too sedating for me? also looking into paxil

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I just started Remeron, and it is a bit sedating, which for me is a good thing. And, interestingly enough, after all the anti depressants I’ve tried (including Wellbutrin) I’m not smoking as much. Wellbutrin did make me very jittery and did not help me quit smoking…..if anything, I was so damn jittery I smoked more. So, for me right now, if it ain’t broke I’m not gonna try to fix it. I ‘ve done some research on Remeron and found out that it can affect some blood lab numbers, but this is working much faster than any other anti dep I’ve ever tried, and I was one pretty desperate person the last few weeks, taking Effexor and still feeling lousy. I’m hearing horror stories about Paxil……I was told it was sedating, and it made my daughter sleep all day. For me it didn’t do anything. Guess it takes info from NG’s and doing some internet research. Good luck, Tispe

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> hi, does anyone know if welbutrin would go well with remeron. remeron > by itself is too sedating for me? > also looking into paxil

Response:

>hi, does anyone know if welbutrin would go well with remeron. remeron >by itself is too sedating for me? > also looking into paxil

I don’t intend to discourage you but I’m afraid the anwers you’ll get to that kind of questions shall not have any scientific foundation , or stuff.

Response:

However…. its just possible she might…. PLUS she’ll get real life experiences. For instance, I was put on Remeron to boost my Wellbutrin. It didn’t work for me. YBMV Linda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->hi, does anyone know if welbutrin would go well with remeron. remeron >by itself is too sedating for me? > also looking into paxil >I don’t intend to discourage you but I’m afraid the >anwers you’ll get to that kind of questions shall not >have any scientific foundation , or stuff.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > However…. its just possible she might…. PLUS she’ll get real life > experiences. > For instance, I was put on Remeron to boost my Wellbutrin. It didn’t > work for me. YBMV > Linda >>hi, does anyone know if welbutrin would go well with remeron. remeron >>by itself is too sedating for me? >> also looking into paxil >I don’t intend to discourage you but I’m afraid the >anwers you’ll get to that kind of questions shall not >have any scientific foundation , or stuff.

I hear the higher remeron dosage, the lesser the sedation. I was on 15 and 30mg, and helped great with sleep, but still groggy next day, needing a couple cups of joe, but then i feel anxious. Im looking into trying 45mg remeron, after a few days if i still feel too sedated, adding welbutrin, which also may help my smoking and mood. Studies show dopamine cotrolles alot of addictions, and mood. Then take xanax or klonopin AS NEEDED, say for panic feeling or something very dramatic that may make you anxious. Im currently taking 10mg ambien along with 100mg of 5htp, and .25 xanax 2 times a day which helps, but not giving me the satisfaction i want. formerlly addicted to g, so my sleep patterns and mood and anxiety are out of wak

Response:

For those who haven’t try Remeron yet (and are still hunting for a med that works for you) you might ask the doc about it. I have been on it (30mg) for a month and have had pretty good results. Depression has been minimal thus far (will probally be going to 45 mg soon). I have had more anxiety mania than normal but doc says may or may not be the Remeron. Two weeks ago he added Lorazepam to be taken as need for mania and yesterday added a climbing doseage of Paxil 20 mg to 40mg over next 3 weeks (he is doing his best to keep me off Lithium). Remeron gave me the munchies bad for the first 2 to 3 weeks but that seems to be letting up quite abit. Rocky www.angelfire.com/tn2/justme/

Response:

> For those who haven’t try Remeron yet (and are still hunting for a med > that works for you) you might ask the doc about it. I have been on it > (30mg) for a month and have had pretty good results. Depression has been > minimal thus far (will probally be going to 45 mg soon). I have had more > anxiety mania than normal but doc says may or may not be the Remeron.

i tried remeron before i knew i needed a mood stabiliser too….. it put me in jail 4 days for assault….. ( but, it gave me nice dreams…. it was several months before it really hit me, and i went hypo REAL bad. other than that i liked it a lot. anna > Two weeks ago he added Lorazepam to be taken as need for mania and > yesterday added a climbing doseage of Paxil 20 mg to 40mg over next 3 > weeks (he is doing his best to keep me off Lithium). > Remeron gave me the munchies bad for the first 2 to 3 weeks but that > seems to be letting up quite abit. > Rocky > www.angelfire.com/tn2/justme/

– ‘the softest of all soft things overrides the hardest of things….’ — i ching "blessed am i to dwell in this beautiful temple"

Response:

Your & Anna’s reaction to the same drug is so opposite! My boyfriend has recently started taking it & he really likes it, so far. The downside is that he needs about 12 hours of sleep daily & sometimes has nightmares. The good part is that he seems to feel really happy & more productive. Does anyone else out there have anything to report on this med? (Including sexual difficulties i.e. "anorgasmia") …Or on Wellbutrin?…. (I’m still new to this…) Why are the drugs switched around so often?

Response:

Hi Leslie, > Your & Anna’s reaction to the same drug is so opposite! My boyfriend > has recently started taking it & he really likes it, so far. > The downside is that he needs about 12 hours of sleep daily & sometimes > has nightmares. > The good part is that he seems to feel really happy & more productive. > Does anyone else out there have anything to report on this med? > (Including sexual difficulties i.e. "anorgasmia") > …Or on Wellbutrin?…. > (I’m still new to this…) Why are the drugs switched around so often?

Remeron is a tetracyclic AD and can cause somnolence in some users as well as abnormal dreams. Anorgasmia is not listed as a side effect. Wellbutrin can cause impotence in some male users. Med adjustments are indicated when the selected meds lose their effectiveness. Peace, — Lynda

Response:

I’ve taken 30 mg of Remeron for a couple years (My diagnosis is dysthemia — mild cyclic depression). I used to get a little sleepy and very hungry, but have never minded it much. I now take about 25 mg of ritalin daily with it. I should add that I had a very, very anxious reaction to prozac, so an anti-depressant that is sedative rather than stimulating was much better for me. On the sexual side, I can’t really tell. As a 51-year-old male, I’m certainly experiencing less sexual interest and reliable performance than I used to, but how much of that is Remeron, I couldn’t tell you. If anything really unusual happened, my doctor suggested viagra, but it’s pretty acceptable so far. –Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Your & Anna’s reaction to the same drug is so opposite! My boyfriend > has recently started taking it & he really likes it, so far. > The downside is that he needs about 12 hours of sleep daily & sometimes > has nightmares. > The good part is that he seems to feel really happy & more productive. > Does anyone else out there have anything to report on this med? > (Including sexual difficulties i.e. "anorgasmia") > …Or on Wellbutrin?…. > (I’m still new to this…) Why are the drugs switched around so often?

Response:

Does anyone have any experiences with this drug?Does it help the depression?Sleep?Thanks

Response:

> Does anyone have any experiences with this drug?Does it help the > depression?Sleep?Thanks

It helps me with depression and sleep (it makes me sleepy and drowsy, not too much during the day, though). It doesn’t seem to have the kick that paroxetine (paxil, seroxat, deroxat, etc) gave me, but on the other hand, it doesn’t have the lousy side effects and withdrawl effects I experienced from seroxat. GreetinX from Amsterdam X X Bas

Response:

Hi Bas, Boy is it good to heard from you…I really missed you and tried to email you several times but they all bounced. How are you doing? It has been over 6 months at least!! I hope yu will stay around…. Yours, Lynda — Lynda

Response:

Hi, > Does anyone have any experiences with this drug?

I have not taken it but it works well for some people. >Does it help the > depression?Sleep?Thanks

It is a tetracyclic AD.It has the potential side effect of somnolence and is better if taken at bedtime. Peace, — Lynda

Response:

I’ve been taking 30 mg of Remeron at bedtime for almost 20 months now. The first night I took Remeron I slept like a baby. I had’nt done that in a long while, always had trouble falling asleep and once I finally did I was constantly waking. I noticed that that doom and gloom feeling I used to wake up with was gone. The only side effect for me was constant appetite which at first was O.K. because I was slightly underweight. I am just now considering not taking it anymore because I have put on 25lbs over 20 months and I am uncomfortable at my present weight, However, I would not hesitate going back on it if those old feelings come back. It really worked wonderfully for me.

Response:

> I’ve been taking 30 mg of Remeron at bedtime for almost 20 months now. > The first night I took Remeron I slept like a baby. I had’nt done that > in a long while, always had trouble falling asleep and once I finally > did I was constantly waking.

remeron made me sleep well too…. and have reaaaallly really interesting dreams…. i really liked that part… mood-wise it made me really agitated and i actually freaked out on it after a few months. ( but, i wish i could take it cause the dreams were great. it upped my appetite too which could have been a downside if i gained tons of weight. didnt have time to see. peace anna I noticed that that doom and gloom feeling > I used to wake up with was gone. The only side effect for me was > constant appetite which at first was O.K. because I was slightly > underweight. I am just now considering not taking it anymore because I > have put on 25lbs over 20 months and I am uncomfortable at my present > weight, However, I would not hesitate going back on it if those old > feelings come back. It really worked wonderfully for me.

– ‘the softest of all soft things overrides the hardest of things….’ — i ching "blessed am i to dwell in this beautiful temple"

Response:

when i had insomnia from my mania, i used remeron for sleep, and it actually worked for a little while. i had taken trazadone, ambien, valium, clonipin, atavan, all for sleep at other times and they too failed after some time. good luck

Response:

Is there anyone else on remeron?? Does it make you tired as hell?? I am so tired all the time, but I am afraid to even tell my pdoc, because he made me suffer a debilitating depression for almost a month before he would even consider putting me on it because he is of the "antidepressants-make-bipolars-manic" school of thought and he is so overly cautious I am worried that he wouldn’t put me on another one and I suffer from major depression all the time w/o an antidepressant. Remeron works really well to alleviate the depression, and so I am afraid he will take me off of it if he knew how somnolent it makes me—sometimes I can barely drive. I need a couple of double latte`s to counteract it and I already have to go to substance abuse counselling for caffeine abuse so who knows what they will say about that. Michelle

Response:

Hi Michelle, I never took Remeron, BUT – when I was having trouble sleeping my old PDOC gave me a sample packet to use if I couldn’t sleep. She said to only use when I really couldn’t get to sleep since it leaves you hung over the next day. Did your Pdoc instruct you to take the Remeron at bedtime? If your Pdoc thinks ADs make BPs "manic" – then he might read the BP 101 handbook – prescribe a mood stabilizer with the AD. In my EXPERIENCE, Effexor made me a bit hypomanic wo a mood stabilizer after a few months (at a higher dosage) BUT it did lift a totally debilitating depression. I am taking 60mg of Celexa now as my AD + 200mg Lamictal and 600mg Tegretol. So far so good. It took a while (4-6 weeks and a higher dose) of Celexa to notice any results. The only side-effect is "pregnancy-time" acne and flatuance (the farts) HA Ki – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Is there anyone else on remeron?? Does it make you tired as hell?? I >am so tired all the time, but I am afraid to even tell my pdoc, >because he made me suffer a debilitating depression for almost a month >before he would even consider putting me on it because he is of the >"antidepressants-make-bipolars-manic" school of thought and he is so >overly cautious I am worried that he wouldn’t put me on another one >and I suffer from major depression all the time w/o an antidepressant. >Remeron works really well to alleviate the depression, and so I am >afraid he will take me off of it if he knew how somnolent it makes >me—sometimes I can barely drive. I need a couple of double latte`s >to counteract it and I already have to go to substance abuse >counselling for caffeine abuse so who knows what they will say about >that. >Michelle

Response:

My pdoc just switched me to Remeron. I was taking tegretol and paxil and am now taking tegretol and Remeron. I had a brief period of mania and have been haveing trouble sleeping for quite awhile. Thats why he switched me to Remeron. I must say, it is certainly putting me to sleep. Anyway, I’m looking for any input anyone might have on Remeron. Positive, negative and side effects. Much appreciated, Melanie

Response:

I am taking lithium, Remeron and Effexor. The Remeron has definately caused a ton of sedation- I was sleeping 12 hours a day. However, Remeron is the first anti-depressant that has been able to do anything for the current depression I am in and I have been on MAOI’s, SSRI’s, tricyclics etc etc. My doc told me that the sedation should ware off over time. So, I am waiting. Martha

Response:

Martha, thanks for your reply… I seem to be sedated no matter what I am taking! The Remeron so far seems to have caused diabetic/hypoglycemic type reactions: dizziness, extreme thirst, extreme hunger, major sugar cravings. My stomach is also very upset. The dizziness is wearing off, but I have been cycling bad all week long. (Nine cycles a day!) I have been on Nortryptaline, Serzone, Zoloft, Trazodone, Paxil and now Remeron. Hope this works! Good luck to you with this drug. Moira

Response:

Hi, I just got off of Remeron after almost three months. It was ineffective and I gained 25-30 lbs. while taking it. Most people I speak to that have taken it say the same…no big deal. Jes Sharai — Cor ad Cor Loquitur Heart Speaketh to Heart "Your Key to Mental Health on the Internet" http://www.sstar.com/jsharai/index.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My psychiatrist has recently prescribed anti-depressant Remeron because > the Effexor I have been on seems to be making me manic and I am turning > into a more and more rapid cycler. The problem is that after one dose > (actually a quarter of one dose) I fell sound asleep for fourteen hours > and could barely function the next day. I have searched the internet for > info but since Remeron is new, it’s hard to get. If anyone else has been > or is on it, can you please let me know what your reaction was and if such > sleepiness might pass eventually. My psychiatrist and I agreed it was best > to wait a few days, after the holidays, to continue this trial run. > Thanks. > JW

Response:

My psychiatrist has recently prescribed anti-depressant Remeron because the Effexor I have been on seems to be making me manic and I am turning into a more and more rapid cycler. The problem is that after one dose (actually a quarter of one dose) I fell sound asleep for fourteen hours and could barely function the next day. I have searched the internet for info but since Remeron is new, it’s hard to get. If anyone else has been or is on it, can you please let me know what your reaction was and if such sleepiness might pass eventually. My psychiatrist and I agreed it was best to wait a few days, after the holidays, to continue this trial run. Thanks. JW

Response:

Hi JW, I’ve been on Remeron for about 2 months, prescribed at 15 mg, but I only take half that. I had the heavy sedative effect too, even at 7.5mg I have to make sure I can sleep 7 hours or so before having to awaken. My pdoc said that he would actually prescribe MORE than less to correct the sleepiness. I just laughed. 7.5 has the needed AD effect. (I am bipolar with occasional moderate depressive episodes). I have found my sex drive to be way up and my digestive tract to be a mess. This is the extent of it for me. I can tell if I don’t take it for 3 or 4 days. I wonder what your doc thinks about increasing the dosage to cure the sleepiness. BTW I have chronic insomnia and was having to take Ambien to sleep, so this has really helped me. Of course, YMMV. And frankly most people that take this drug don’t seem to like it. Best of luck, Trish – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >My psychiatrist has recently prescribed anti-depressant Remeron because >the Effexor I have been on seems to be making me manic and I am turning >into a more and more rapid cycler. The problem is that after one dose >(actually a quarter of one dose) I fell sound asleep for fourteen hours >and could barely function the next day. I have searched the internet for >info but since Remeron is new, it’s hard to get. If anyone else has been >or is on it, can you please let me know what your reaction was and if such >sleepiness might pass eventually. My psychiatrist and I agreed it was best >to wait a few days, after the holidays, to continue this trial run. >Thanks. >JW

Response:

Hey everyone. I have a q about Remeron. I know it often causes weight gain. I’m wondering, for people who have tried it, did it make you gain weight? If so…how long were you taking the R for? How much weight did you gain? Did it increase your appetite or make you crave sweets, or was it something else? And if you _didn’t_ get weight gain or increased appetite from R, I’d like to hear about that as well. Looking for as many data points as I can find. -elizabeth

Response:

Hi Elizabeth I am currently taking Remeron, and have been for about the past month. I am naturally very thin and extremely underweight (5′11" and 115 lbs.) so I thought that taking Remeron would not only help with the depression and PD, but also cause me to put on a few pounds. Not so, I have gained only but a couple of pound since I started taking Remeron and have yet to see any increase in appetite. Good luck and take care. > Hey everyone. I have a q about Remeron. > I know it often causes weight gain. I’m wondering, for people who have tried > it, did it make you gain weight? If so…how long were you taking the R for? > How much weight did you gain? Did it increase your appetite or make you crave > sweets, or was it something else? And if you _didn’t_ get weight gain or > increased appetite from R, I’d like to hear about that as well. > Looking for as many data points as I can find. > -elizabeth

– Jason M. Carroll Motorola Tech Support fly.hiwaay.net/~jason

Response:

I feel heavier and my abdomen looks bigger but I only get weighed once a month (I’m in a wheelchair and can’t weigh myself) and I’ve only been on Remeron for three weeks so I don’t know if I’ve gained weight or not. It did not increase my appetite or make me crave sweets – it made me crave carbohydrates, like even just plain pieces of bread sometimes. Even as I was eating these things (coookies, crackers and tec.) I would be thinking: "Why am I eating this? It doesn’t taste all that good and it will just make me gain weight." I took one 15 mg pill each night before bed. I’ve heard weight gain problems are reduced or eliminated at higher doses, like 45 mg each night. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hey everyone. I have a q about Remeron. >I know it often causes weight gain. I’m wondering, for people who have tried >it, did it make you gain weight? If so…how long were you taking the R for? >How much weight did you gain? Did it increase your appetite or make you crave >sweets, or was it something else? And if you _didn’t_ get weight gain or >increased appetite from R, I’d like to hear about that as well. >Looking for as many data points as I can find. >-elizabeth

Response:

My doctor put me on Remeron at the beginning of the summer. I am a school teacher so I wanted to wait to try something new until school was over. After taking it for a few weeks, I started to get numbness in my hands and feet and I gained 20 pounds over the summer. Needless to say, I stopped taking the medication and the feeling came back in both my hands and feet. Now I am going to try and get the weight off. I believe that the numbness was from the weight gain in my hands and feet. I was unable to wear any of my shoes. Maybe things will be different for you. Just wanted to let you know what happened to me!!

Response:

Does anyone know anything about Remeron for depression? Like where to find info that isn’t in German.

Response:

elizabeth: I have gained much weight since starting remeron but wasn’t sure it was connected. I know that I do crave sweets tho more than I used to. It’s depressing to me to see my stomach get larger, as if I’m pregnant. ray

Response:

Elizabeth, Remeron was about the best med I ever tried. I gave it up because of the weight gain. It definitely increased my appetite, especially for sugar and carbs. However, while on it, I went on the Atkins diet very strictly, and began to exercise every day. After two months of this, I hadn’t lost a pound. So my guess is that Remeron has metabolic effects that contribute to weight gain, as well as appetite-increasing effects. Soon afterward, I went back on it. I am now taking it together with Wellbutrin and that seems to be offsetting the weight gain. All in all, this combo is really good. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hey everyone. I have a q about Remeron. >I know it often causes weight gain. I’m wondering, for people who have tried >it, did it make you gain weight? If so…how long were you taking the R for? >How much weight did you gain? Did it increase your appetite or make you crave >sweets, or was it something else? And if you _didn’t_ get weight gain or >increased appetite from R, I’d like to hear about that as well. >Looking for as many data points as I can find. >-elizabeth

Response:

Hi Does anyone out there take Remeron for their bipolar depression and if so how does it work for you? Thanks Doug

Response:

Hi Doug, I took Rameron 60mg at bedtime. It knocked me out. It helped the depression some, but not enough and it didn’t help the hypomania. I’m BP2. Thank U! Diane

Response:

<Posted and Mailed to Diane> >I took Remeron 60mg at bedtime. It knocked me out.

Try dividing your total dose up into 3-4 equal portions to be taken 8 or 6 hours apart. That should greatly reduce the zombie effect as well as enhancing your mood stability. IMO it is definitely worth a shot! >It helped the depression >some, but not enough and it didn’t help the hypomania.

Since Remeron (like Effexor) is prescribed to elevate your serotonin and norepinephrine levels, I’m not at all surprised that it wouldn’t help with your hypomania. In fact I am surprised that it didn’t make it worse. Why not talk to your pdoc about this? >I’m BP II.

I’m James. But I do HAVE BP. >Thank U! >Diane

Best regards from, James

Response:

It’s good that you are tracking it. Your notes will be quite helpful in follow-ups.

Response:

less sexual side effects than ssri’s, but may cause sedation or weight gain

Response:

switching from doxepin to trazodone

Question:

I’ve been taking doxepin for many years for sleep and recently had a psychiatrist mention I might want to talk to my Dr. about switching to trazodone since doxepin has given me a constant battle with my weight not to mention dry mouth, etc. I’m wondering if anyone might know the best way to wean off of doxepin and start trazodone. Can they be "overlapped" at all or must one be completely off one to start the other? Also, is there any way of knowing what an equivalent dosage might be. I take 150 to 200mg a night of doxepin. Thanks for any help.

Response:

Ask your doctor.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve been taking doxepin for many years for sleep and recently had a > psychiatrist mention I might want to talk to my Dr. about switching to > trazodone since doxepin has given me a constant battle with my weight > not to mention dry mouth, etc. I’m wondering if anyone might know the > best way to wean off of doxepin and start trazodone. Can they be > "overlapped" at all or must one be completely off one to start the > other? Also, is there any way of knowing what an equivalent dosage > might be. I take 150 to 200mg a night of doxepin. > Thanks for any help.

Response:

Itching on MS Contin

Question:

Barbara, it must be awful to be itching all the time! If the benadryl & calamine are working, then that’s what you gotta do to keep on your meds for pain. Have you tried Atarax or Vistaril? They are sometmes more effective than benadryl. Are you taking 25mg or 50mg of Benadryl each time? I don’t itch, but take Benadryl on occasion for other reasons, & I find it has an extreme drying effect on my mucous membranes & stuffs up my sinuses, & gives me a wicked headache. Have you tried tepid oatmeal (Aveeno, I think) baths to relieve the itching? Oatmeal is very good for various skin conditions that cause itching. For severe itching, Sinequan (Doxepin) & Thorazine (chlorpromezine) can be used. You should let your DR know how uncomfortable you are & ask him for something. I sure hope you get relief! (I had an allergic reaction to Zanaflex & before going into Anaphalactic shock, I had wicked hives/angioedema & I went nuts with the itching!! DR said that Cortisone cremes would be a waste of time. In this case, I had to go on very high dose of Cortisone) So, I can just imagine how you feel! hoping you get relief, ~Stacie~

Response:

Barbara, try the liquid Benedryl… Ronnie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Every time I taxe Oxy or anything with Codeine……I scratch myself raw . I > end up taking Benedryl by the box and using calamine lotion all over my > body, just for a little pain relief. Is it worth it?? Sometimes I have to > wonder….. > Barbara > >Since taking more of the IR > >morphine and then with the increased MSC, I’m have a lot of itching. > >Is this a "normal" side effect best handled with OTC benadryl? (that’s > >what I using) My concern is that I have many drug allergies, including > >codeine, and I’m fearful that I may be developing a problem with > >morphine. > It’s pretty normal to itch with opiates. You’ve just had an increase, so > it’s > to be expected. If the Benadryl doesn’t work, ask your doctor to phone in > some > Vistaril (Hydroxyzine) into your pharmacy. That should take care of the > itchies. I get the itchies as well, for many reasons (kidney aren’t too > great) > and have no one here to even scratch my back…I hate that. Anyhow, as > long as > you have no other side effects of a pending allergy, you should be OK. > You’ve > been fine on MSContin and IR for this long, so it’s probably the increase > in > the dose. As I said, if the Benadryl doesn’t work (and you can go up to > doses > of 50-100mg as per your doctor) have your doc call in the Vistaril. I get > the > 50mg of Vistaril (Atarax is also the same thing, but for some reason, I > like > Vistaril better), and I can take 1-2 every 4-6 hours. Usually, I just take > 2 > every 6 hours. It works pretty well. I also take Phenergan for nausea and > for > some reason, that seems to work for me too. > Sorry for the typos…I am typing with one hand following surgery. I am > really > hurting. [NOTE: ALL OF THE FOLLOWING I WROTE EARLIER] I sent this in a > letter > to Kathy, the office manager, at my Rheumatologist’s office: "I had Carpal > Tunnel Surgery done Thursday 5/30/01 on my right hand/wrist (they knew > this as > I had an appointment on 5/28), and did not have it done the "new" way, > but > had to have it done the "old" way due to anatomy. In addition to that, I > had a cyst removed that was wrapped around a tendon and growing deep > within the > tissue. When I asked Dr. L (my Rheumy) about the pain at my visit on 5/28, > he > said no, I would not have ANY pain because I was having painful conditions > fixed (Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and the cyst) so I would feel immediate > results, > no pain at all post-op OR the days after." Can you BELIEVE that my doc > would > say this???? I am in A LOT of pain! I mean, each day it gets better, but > to > tell me I would have NO pain????? I knew he would say that because he said > the > SAME thing when I had my eye surgery done in January and that hurt too > (but not > as bad as this)! He does it to get out of prescribing pain meds. Last > month, > when I asked about breakthrough pain meds (I take Duragesic and Methadone, > and > desperately need something short-acting), because I was having terrible > breakthrough pain, he almost yelled at me and said that short acting meds > were > too addicting, etc. I know, I need to find a new pain doc, but this one > also > treats my many medical conditions. Also, my insurance company is a PAIN > (literally) when it comes to issuing referrals, and I have been waiting > MONTHS > for referrals to see my doctors, including my HEART doctor (I have a heart > murmur due to a bad valve and also a very fast and at times irregular > heart > rate), my GI doctor (I cant eat, lost 10lbs in 3 weeks…this is > documented…went to the same doc May 7th and May 28th…throw up a > lot….pancreatic pain…bloating…etc), my Neurologist, a Neurosurgeon > (disc > herniations, stenosis, DDD, Neural Foraminal Enroachment, curvature of the > spine, etc), and also need a referral for my Rheumy after July 2nd…after > that > visit, my referral is used up, and if I don’t get another, I cant see him > and > wont get pain meds. I am talking about an insurance company that has not > yet > gotten me my wheelchair that my doctor wrote a prescription for 6 MONTHS > ago in > DECEMBER, and also a letter of medical necessity for (I have it). The cost > was > also approved by the insurance, and they sent me to a doctor they SAID > would > "fit" me for it (they did it to waste time) but that doc doesn’t do things > like > that. Luckily, he was SO nice, and was supposed to call my "supposed" case > manager (who NEVER calls me back) about a program at the hospital that > does do > wheelchairs. The insurance is just jerking me around in hopes that my > coverage > will end before they have to get it for me as it’s electric and very > expensive. > To them, it doesn’t matter if I have a life or not. It’s just terrible. > Anyhow, had to get that out. Thanks for listening. > Anyhow, Jennie, if the Benadryl doesn’t work, see if your doc will call in > the > Vistaril. It is not a controlled medication. It’s side effects are > minimal, and > can make you a bit tired, but I found that Benadryl makes me even more so. > Give > your body time to adjust to your new dose of MSContin, it might just take > time. > OK, this is enough for me. I am really hurting, not just my hands (I also > have > Carpal Tunnel in my left hand and will probably have surgery in July or > so) but > my back really hurts and I just feel awful. I had a terrible vomiting > spell > today, and did not sleep well at all, so I am going to try to sleep now. > Good luck! > Nikki > ******* > I am who I am > You’re approval is neither > Desired nor required > ******* > "When you throw mud at someone, remember you are the > one who is losing ground." > ******* > "He that can’t endure the bad will not live to see the good." > *******

Response:

Every time I taxe Oxy or anything with Codeine……I scratch myself raw . I end up taking Benedryl by the box and using calamine lotion all over my body, just for a little pain relief. Is it worth it?? Sometimes I have to wonder….. Barbara

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Since taking more of the IR >morphine and then with the increased MSC, I’m have a lot of itching. >Is this a "normal" side effect best handled with OTC benadryl? (that’s >what I using) My concern is that I have many drug allergies, including >codeine, and I’m fearful that I may be developing a problem with >morphine. > It’s pretty normal to itch with opiates. You’ve just had an increase, so it’s > to be expected. If the Benadryl doesn’t work, ask your doctor to phone in some > Vistaril (Hydroxyzine) into your pharmacy. That should take care of the > itchies. I get the itchies as well, for many reasons (kidney aren’t too great) > and have no one here to even scratch my back…I hate that. Anyhow, as long as > you have no other side effects of a pending allergy, you should be OK. You’ve > been fine on MSContin and IR for this long, so it’s probably the increase in > the dose. As I said, if the Benadryl doesn’t work (and you can go up to doses > of 50-100mg as per your doctor) have your doc call in the Vistaril. I get the > 50mg of Vistaril (Atarax is also the same thing, but for some reason, I like > Vistaril better), and I can take 1-2 every 4-6 hours. Usually, I just take 2 > every 6 hours. It works pretty well. I also take Phenergan for nausea and for > some reason, that seems to work for me too. > Sorry for the typos…I am typing with one hand following surgery. I am really > hurting. [NOTE: ALL OF THE FOLLOWING I WROTE EARLIER] I sent this in a letter > to Kathy, the office manager, at my Rheumatologist’s office: "I had Carpal > Tunnel Surgery done Thursday 5/30/01 on my right hand/wrist (they knew this as > I had an appointment on 5/28), and did not have it done the "new" way, but > had to have it done the "old" way due to anatomy. In addition to that, I > had a cyst removed that was wrapped around a tendon and growing deep within the > tissue. When I asked Dr. L (my Rheumy) about the pain at my visit on 5/28, he > said no, I would not have ANY pain because I was having painful conditions > fixed (Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and the cyst) so I would feel immediate results, > no pain at all post-op OR the days after." Can you BELIEVE that my doc would > say this???? I am in A LOT of pain! I mean, each day it gets better, but to > tell me I would have NO pain????? I knew he would say that because he said the > SAME thing when I had my eye surgery done in January and that hurt too (but not > as bad as this)! He does it to get out of prescribing pain meds. Last month, > when I asked about breakthrough pain meds (I take Duragesic and Methadone, and > desperately need something short-acting), because I was having terrible > breakthrough pain, he almost yelled at me and said that short acting meds were > too addicting, etc. I know, I need to find a new pain doc, but this one also > treats my many medical conditions. Also, my insurance company is a PAIN > (literally) when it comes to issuing referrals, and I have been waiting MONTHS > for referrals to see my doctors, including my HEART doctor (I have a heart > murmur due to a bad valve and also a very fast and at times irregular heart > rate), my GI doctor (I cant eat, lost 10lbs in 3 weeks…this is > documented…went to the same doc May 7th and May 28th…throw up a > lot….pancreatic pain…bloating…etc), my Neurologist, a Neurosurgeon (disc > herniations, stenosis, DDD, Neural Foraminal Enroachment, curvature of the > spine, etc), and also need a referral for my Rheumy after July 2nd…after that > visit, my referral is used up, and if I don’t get another, I cant see him and > wont get pain meds. I am talking about an insurance company that has not yet > gotten me my wheelchair that my doctor wrote a prescription for 6 MONTHS ago in > DECEMBER, and also a letter of medical necessity for (I have it). The cost was > also approved by the insurance, and they sent me to a doctor they SAID would > "fit" me for it (they did it to waste time) but that doc doesn’t do things like > that. Luckily, he was SO nice, and was supposed to call my "supposed" case > manager (who NEVER calls me back) about a program at the hospital that does do > wheelchairs. The insurance is just jerking me around in hopes that my coverage > will end before they have to get it for me as it’s electric and very expensive. > To them, it doesn’t matter if I have a life or not. It’s just terrible. > Anyhow, had to get that out. Thanks for listening. > Anyhow, Jennie, if the Benadryl doesn’t work, see if your doc will call in the > Vistaril. It is not a controlled medication. It’s side effects are minimal, and > can make you a bit tired, but I found that Benadryl makes me even more so. Give > your body time to adjust to your new dose of MSContin, it might just take time. > OK, this is enough for me. I am really hurting, not just my hands (I also have > Carpal Tunnel in my left hand and will probably have surgery in July or so) but > my back really hurts and I just feel awful. I had a terrible vomiting spell > today, and did not sleep well at all, so I am going to try to sleep now. > Good luck! > Nikki > ******* > I am who I am > You’re approval is neither > Desired nor required > ******* > "When you throw mud at someone, remember you are the > one who is losing ground." > ******* > "He that can’t endure the bad will not live to see the good." > *******

Response:

> It’s pretty normal to itch with opiates. You’ve just had an increase, so it’s > to be expected. If the Benadryl doesn’t work, ask your doctor to phone in some > Vistaril (Hydroxyzine) into your pharmacy. That should take care of the > itchies. I get the itchies as well, for many reasons (kidney aren’t too great) > and have no one here to even scratch my back…I hate that. Anyhow, as long as > you have no other side effects of a pending allergy, you should be OK. You’ve > been fine on MSContin and IR for this long, so it’s probably the increase in > the dose. As I said, if the Benadryl doesn’t work (and you can go up to doses > of 50-100mg as per your doctor) have your doc call in the Vistaril. I get the > 50mg of Vistaril (Atarax is also the same thing, but for some reason, I like > Vistaril better), and I can take 1-2 every 4-6 hours. Usually, I just take 2 > every 6 hours. It works pretty well. I also take Phenergan for nausea and for > some reason, that seems to work for me too.

Nikki, thank you for responding to my concern. If this continues I’ll use your knowledge to talk with my physician about Vistaril. I seem to develop allergies to medications after using them for years, as was the case with codeine. Thus my fear of "what if I can’t use morphine." I’m good at worrying about things early…. never put off til tomorrow that which you can do today. <g> Thanks Nikki, and I hope you have a speedy recovery. Jennie

Response:

>Since taking more of the IR >morphine and then with the increased MSC, I’m have a lot of itching. >Is this a "normal" side effect best handled with OTC benadryl? (that’s >what I using) My concern is that I have many drug allergies, including >codeine, and I’m fearful that I may be developing a problem with >morphine.

It’s pretty normal to itch with opiates. You’ve just had an increase, so it’s to be expected. If the Benadryl doesn’t work, ask your doctor to phone in some Vistaril (Hydroxyzine) into your pharmacy. That should take care of the itchies. I get the itchies as well, for many reasons (kidney aren’t too great) and have no one here to even scratch my back…I hate that. Anyhow, as long as you have no other side effects of a pending allergy, you should be OK. You’ve been fine on MSContin and IR for this long, so it’s probably the increase in the dose. As I said, if the Benadryl doesn’t work (and you can go up to doses of 50-100mg as per your doctor) have your doc call in the Vistaril. I get the 50mg of Vistaril (Atarax is also the same thing, but for some reason, I like Vistaril better), and I can take 1-2 every 4-6 hours. Usually, I just take 2 every 6 hours. It works pretty well. I also take Phenergan for nausea and for some reason, that seems to work for me too. Sorry for the typos…I am typing with one hand following surgery. I am really hurting. [NOTE: ALL OF THE FOLLOWING I WROTE EARLIER] I sent this in a letter to Kathy, the office manager, at my Rheumatologist’s office: "I had Carpal Tunnel Surgery done Thursday 5/30/01 on my right hand/wrist (they knew this as I had an appointment on 5/28), and did not have it done the

going off anti-depressants

Question:

Lucky you I’m hoping it’s just the Luvox I’m sensitive to going off – then perhaps I can swap over to something else and come off that. But I seem to be quite sensitive to side-effects from the medications I take – eg I’m only on 20mg Oxycontin BID, have been for over a year, but need at least four sennakot and 5 softeners per day to get the bowels vaguely normal. — Katharine S. Opportunity knocks once. Temptation leans on the doorbell.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have been on several antidepressants and stopped them without any problem. > I have been on celexa and they say you have problems coming off of them but > not me. Been on prozac and stopped it without problems. > Bonner > Just thought I would add my 2cents in here. > I came across this while looking for something else, something to be aware > of for those whose doctors don’t bother to tell them when going on > anti-depressants how difficult it can be coming off them! > — > Katharine S. > boston globe > HEALTH SENSE > Rushing off antidepressants can bring more distress > By Judy Foreman, Globe Staff, 6/5/2001 > At first, Zoloft seemed like ”manna from heaven,” says this 53-year-old > woman, a teacher who lives in Watertown.

snipped

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I have been on several antidepressants and stopped them without any problem. > I have been on celexa and they say you have problems coming off of them but > not me. Been on prozac and stopped it without problems. > Bonner > Just thought I would add my 2cents in here. > I came across this while looking for something else, something to be aware > of for those whose doctors don’t bother to tell them when going on > anti-depressants how difficult it can be coming off them! > — > Katharine S. > boston globe > HEALTH SENSE > Rushing off antidepressants can bring more distress > By Judy Foreman, Globe Staff, 6/5/2001 > At first, Zoloft seemed like ”manna from heaven,” says this 53-year-old > woman, a teacher who lives in Watertown. > It was the summer of 1999 and, for reasons she still doesn’t fully > understand, she had slipped into a ”terrible slump.” Her doctor > suggested > Zoloft, America’s second most popular antidepressant, after Prozac. And > for > a while, it was great, says the woman, who does not want her name used. > But after nearly a year on the drug, she developed a twitch in her left > eyelid. It may not have been related to the Zoloft, but since she was > feeling fine, she decided to stop taking the drug. > And, unlike many people who quit antidepressants, she did it the right > way: > very slowly – cutting the dose little by little over six weeks. > Even so, she wound up with three months of withdrawal hell, or > discontinuation syndrome, the term psychiatrists prefer because withdrawal > suggests that antidepressant drugs are addictive (like cocaine or heroin), > which they are not. > Discontinuation syndrome is not a recurrence of the original depression, > though that can happen, too. It’s a brand new set of problems, in this > woman’s case, bad headaches, vertigo, and dizziness. At one point during a > walk, she says, ”my body felt like it was tipping to one side. I had to > keep lying down. It was terrible.” > Could a drug that was no longer in her system somehow be causing weird > symptoms she’d never had before? > ”That was the thing that got me the most creeped out,” she says. ”The > drug clearly is out of your body. So what was it that lasted for three > months?” > What lasted so long for this teacher, and many others who stop taking > antidepressant drugs, is what scientists now think of as a prolonged > period > of re-adjustment during which the chemistry of the brain settles into a > kind > of new, non-depressed normal. > To be sure, many of the millions of people worldwide who take > antidepressants experience no withdrawal symptoms when they stop. But some > studies suggest that one in every 10 have some symptoms and one in 20 > suffer > significant distress, says Dr. Jerrold Rosenbaum, chief of psychiatry at > Massachusetts General Hospital. > Others, among them Dr. Andrew Leuchter, director of the division of adult > psychiatry at the UCLA Medical Center, believe the actual figures are much > higher. > Yet even doctors who should be on the lookout for withdrawal symptoms – > such > as dizziness, increased nervousness, irritability, insomnia, and a > dramatic > increase in vivid dreams – often aren’t paying close attention. > A 1997 study in the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry showed that 70 percent > of > general practitioners and, surprisingly, a third of psychiatrists don’t > know > that significant withdrawal symptoms can occur when people stop taking > antidepressants called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, or SSRIs, > including Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Luvox, Celexa, and a similar drug, > Effexor. > (Withdrawal syndromes can also occur with antidepressants that work > differently from the SSRIs, including older drugs such as Elavil and > Tofranil) > ”It’s an under-recognized problem,” says Leuchter, because when people > stop taking a drug and then develop new symptoms, they can’t believe it > has > ”anything to do with the medicine because, if they’re not taking it, how > can it affect them?” > But withdrawal clearly does happen, though researchers still aren’t sure > why. The basic thinking is that depression is caused by a deficiency of > serotonin, a key neurotransmitter in the brain. SSRIs boost serotonin by > stopping its re-absorption into brain cells, thus keeping more serotonin > where it’s needed, in the synapses, or gaps, between nerve cells. > As the brain adapts to increased levels of serotonin, some neuroscientists > think there is a decline in either the number or sensitivity of the > brain’s > molecular gateways that can put serotonin to work. Then, when SSRIs are > discontinued, withdrawal symptoms may occur as the nervous system, now > primed for lots of serotonin, isn’t getting enough, says Dr. Alexander > Bodkin, chief of clinical psychopharmacology research at McLean Hospital > in > Belmont. > One thing researchers are sure of is that the severity of withdrawal > symptoms from SSRIs is closely correlated with how long the drug remains > in > the body. The longer the drug or its active metabolic breakdown products > stay in the body, the less severe the withdrawal. > ”The faster-clearing the drug, the worse the withdrawal,” says Dr. > Michael > Craig Miller, a psychiatrist who edits the Harvard Mental Health Letter. > Prozac is least likely to cause withdrawal because its metabolic breakdown > products linger in the body for as long as five weeks. In fact, precisely > because of this, one strategy for people who have trouble getting off > other > SSRIs is to switch to Prozac and then taper slowly off of that. > By contrast, Paxil, Luvox, and Celexa may trigger withdrawal because they > are faster-clearing, lingering in the body for just four to five days. > Zoloft lingers slightly longer. Effexor, a variant of standard SSRIs, has > the shortest half-life of all, about 5 hours, which means it is highly > likely to cause withdrawal symptoms. > Recent studies have bolstered the idea that faster-clearing drugs lead to > worse withdrawal. > In 1998, Rosenbaum of MGH and his team studied 220 patients and found that > those who abruptly stopped taking Paxil, and to a lesser extent, Zoloft, > had > significant withdrawal symptoms, while those who stopped taking Prozac did > not. Another study published last year in the British Journal of > Psychiatry > found essentially the same pattern. > Yet another study, sponsored by Lilly Research Laboratories (Eli Lilly > makes > Prozac) and published last year in Psychoneuroendocrinology, showed that > people who suddenly stopped taking Paxil had a significant increase in > heart > rate and stress hormone levels, while those taking Zoloft or Prozac did > not. > The bottom line is that if you want to wean yourself from antidepressants, > do so slowly, by decreasing your dose by half every one to two weeks. It > may > take weeks or even months to discontinue completely, but that doesn’t > really > matter. > ”There’s never a rush in getting off these medications,” says Leuchter > of > UCLA. ”What’s the hurry? If you have been on them for six to 12 months > and > you’re tolerating them well, there’s no point in going too quickly.” > And if you do develop withdrawal symptoms despite tapering off slowly, try > going back to the previous dose, then switching to Prozac and weaning > yourself from that. > The most important lesson, says the teacher from Watertown, who is now > symptom-free, is that antidepressants – despite the recent backlash in the > media – significantly help millions of people. ”I would never say, `Don’t > go on it,”’ she says. ”I would just say be very aware that when you want > to get off it, go to a doctor who knows about this.” > This story ran on page C1 of the Boston Globe on 6/5/2001. >

Anyone on Doxepin for depression?

Question:

I took it primarily for sleeping problems (took a small dose in the evening, as adjunct for my other meds). Worked great for the sleep… slept like a teenager, and I noticed a very rapid help with my daytime anxiety and depression, too. I’d have moved to it as my main/only drug, except for the dizziness and hypotension, which I wasn’t patient enough to push through on a longer term trial. best, David

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->It is not doing a thing for me and wondering if anyone else is familiar with >this drug.

Response:

It is not doing a thing for me and wondering if anyone else is familiar with this drug.

Response:

> It is not doing a thing for me and wondering if anyone else is familiar with > this drug.

I have taken doxepin for several years, and it has helped me manage my depression. I have taken several other antidepressants, but they did not help. How long have you taken doxepin? It usually takes at least 3 weeks for an antidepressant to be effective. LH

Response:

remeron

Question:

Hi, does anyone know the difference between 15mg of remeron and 45mg, i know the lesser is sedating, but will 45mg make me gain alot of weight? geno

Response:

Geno, hard to say. I’ve been on Remeron from 7.5mg to 45mg. Sometimes I thought it was during the dosage changing that I noticed the most appetite increase. Some people do say that once you get to the high doses (45 or 60), the appetite increase tapers off. As my doctor put it, "people tend to put on weight, and then they stop putting on weight." Others say the battle with appetite never stops no matter the dose. I’d say your best bet is to get to 45 as soon as you can (without killing yourself) and give it some time to settle in. Then see how your appetite is. I think the only way to avoid appetite problems on it is to write down exactly what you’re going to eat each day, and stick to that no matter what, no matter how raging your hunger is. That’s what I would do if I were going back on it. –Frelmat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi, does anyone know the difference between 15mg of remeron and 45mg, >i know the lesser is sedating, but will 45mg make me gain alot of >weight? >geno

Response:

looking to hear from anyone who has personal experience with the medication remeron.

Response:

I have been taking it for about 5 years, what would you like to know ? Cheers, JH

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> looking to hear from anyone who has personal experience with the > medication remeron.

Response:

Lee, I was on Remeron for about five months 10 months ago. I gained about 15 pounds on Remeron, even after the initial increase in appetite. I also have yet to loose most of the weight given that I have been off it for such a long time. There are also some warnings you should take into account with Remeron. Here are the after-side effects that I am still experiencing being off Remeron: 1)shooting pains through the brain randomly, or what is better known as "brain shocks" 2)excessive weight gain that (I hear from most people) can take up to a year to loose However, I should state that Remeron is the only drug that ever worked for me. I have been on all the SSRIs and about five others and none worked until Remeron. Within about five days, my concentration sharpened dramatically, and I also had lots of energy. The only bad side effects I had while taking the drug are deep sedation during the first four days at 15mg/day. If you decide to take Remeron, I suggest you take the dose IMMEDIATELY before going to bed and expect to sleep at least 9 hours that night. Most of the sedation goes away as you take the drug up to 30mg/day on day 5. I tried going up to 45mg/day, but I had some bad diarrhea at this dose.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> looking to hear from anyone who has personal experience with the > medication remeron.

Response:

Shooting pains in the brain randomly? FYI The brain doesn’t have any nerve endings. I doubt seriously that this is because of Remeron. Have you told your doctor about this? It might be very serious.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Lee, > I was on Remeron for about five months 10 months ago. I gained about 15 > pounds on Remeron, even after the initial increase in appetite. I also have > yet to loose most of the weight given that I have been off it for such a > long time. > There are also some warnings you should take into account with Remeron. > Here are the after-side effects that I am still experiencing being off > Remeron: > 1)shooting pains through the brain randomly, or what is better known as > "brain shocks" > 2)excessive weight gain that (I hear from most people) can take up to a year > to loose > However, I should state that Remeron is the only drug that ever worked for > me. I have been on all the SSRIs and about five others and none worked > until Remeron. Within about five days, my concentration sharpened > dramatically, and I also had lots of energy. The only bad side effects I > had while taking the drug are deep sedation during the first four days at > 15mg/day. If you decide to take Remeron, I suggest you take the dose > IMMEDIATELY before going to bed and expect to sleep at least 9 hours that > night. > Most of the sedation goes away as you take the drug up to 30mg/day on day 5. > I tried going up to 45mg/day, but I had some bad diarrhea at this dose. > looking to hear from anyone who has personal experience with the > medication remeron.

Response:

You should know that numerous people that have went off antidepressants or are on antidepressants report these so-called "brain shocks." I asked numerous psychiatrist and they don’t know why brain shocks occur. This is just another mystery of the human mind and one more reason you should be cautious about antidepressants. When a psychiatrist prescribes an antidepressant, most don’t tell you of the potentially terrible things that can happen to you while taking them or after taking them. This includes seizure (because all antidepressants lower a human’s seizure threshold), agranulocytosis, elevated HDL, etc. Since I have been suffering from this disease for most of my life and have been on numerous antidepressants, I tell people considering them to be very, very cautious. Even though these drugs have been out for a while, the human brain is still a large mystery and therefore treatments should be considered conservatively.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Shooting pains in the brain randomly? FYI The brain doesn’t have any nerve > endings. I doubt seriously that this is because of Remeron. Have you told > your doctor about this? It might be very serious. > Lee, > I was on Remeron for about five months 10 months ago. I gained about 15 > pounds on Remeron, even after the initial increase in appetite. I also > have > yet to loose most of the weight given that I have been off it for such a > long time. > There are also some warnings you should take into account with Remeron. > Here are the after-side effects that I am still experiencing being off > Remeron: > 1)shooting pains through the brain randomly, or what is better known as > "brain shocks" > 2)excessive weight gain that (I hear from most people) can take up to a > year > to loose > However, I should state that Remeron is the only drug that ever worked for > me. I have been on all the SSRIs and about five others and none worked > until Remeron. Within about five days, my concentration sharpened > dramatically, and I also had lots of energy. The only bad side effects I > had while taking the drug are deep sedation during the first four days at > 15mg/day. If you decide to take Remeron, I suggest you take the dose > IMMEDIATELY before going to bed and expect to sleep at least 9 hours that > night. > Most of the sedation goes away as you take the drug up to 30mg/day on day > 5. > I tried going up to 45mg/day, but I had some bad diarrhea at this dose. > > looking to hear from anyone who has personal experience with the > > medication remeron.

Response:

how long does i take to get over the sleepyness and hung over feeling caused by 15mgs remeron? been taking for 2 weeks now sleep 11 hours a day and wake up hungover and tired. and still tired throught the day. haven`t experienced any weight gain. does the sleepyness go away with increased dose? when does the depression lift?

Response:

Lee, Your psychiatrist should have told you only to stay on 15mg/day of Remeron for the first four days. This is the procedure recommended in the prescribing information from the drug maker, Organon. When you raise the dose to 30mg/day, you should definitely see a sharp decrease in the sedation. However, even at 30mg/day, you will be sleeping VERY well at night. Some doctors even prescribe Remeron to their patients as a sleep aid alone, for patients without depression, because it works so well for insomnia. To answer your other question about when the depression will lift, that is not so simple to answer. I would give the medication at least four weeks at 30mg/day to test its efficacy. If you do not notice any benefits by then and the sedation is still a problem, it might be a good choice to switch to another medication. However, if the side effects become more bearable, I would suggest a combination or augmentation strategy–combination meaning adding another antidepressant or augmentation meaning adding a drug from another class, such as a psychostimulant or antipsychotic.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> how long does i take to get over the sleepyness and hung over feeling > caused by 15mgs remeron? > been taking for 2 weeks now sleep 11 hours a day and wake up hungover > and tired. and still tired throught the day. > haven`t experienced any weight gain. > does the sleepyness go away with increased dose? > when does the depression lift?

Response:

Is there anyone on Remeron as an antidepressent?? I used to take zoloft but had a bad reaction because of the oxycontin that I take for pain, I ended up with a chemical imbalance so they say. So they put me on the Remeran. I gained alot of fluid with it in the beginning but then that passed. I don’t really think it works well because I’m still weepy. On the zoloft that had gone away. Any thoughts?? Sue

Response:

>Is there anyone on Remeron as an antidepressent?? I used to take zoloft

I am not familiar with that one, but I have taken Doxepin and several others. Did you experience the side effect of weight gain? I gained like 40 pounds, and I have knee problems–I finally told the Doc I am not experiencing any benefit and am actually worse off with the extra weight. I stopped taking in May and lost 35 pounds in 10 weeks doing nothing. Good luck

Response:

>Is there anyone on Remeron as an antidepressent?? I used to take zoloft >but had a bad reaction because of the oxycontin that I take for pain, I >ended up with a chemical imbalance so they say. So they put me on the >Remeran. I gained alot of fluid with it in the beginning but then that >passed. I don’t really think it works well because I’m still weepy. On >the zoloft that had gone away. >Any thoughts?? >Sue

Sue: I would strongly suggest that you have a Psychiatrist prescribe anti-depressants. They are the specialists that know the "ins and outs" of all of the meds. It’s a question of playing around with dosages and chemicals to find the right one for you. Regular MDs can prescribe the stuff, but they don’t have as much experience. Never heard of the stuff you’re taking….. as far as I know, the newest anti-depressant on the market is Effexor. Jeff

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" as far as I know, the newest anti-depressant on the market is Effexor." A recent question to a pharmacologist on this subject brought the following response to me: he says Serzone is all the rage now. It’s an SSRI like Effexor, but Effexor has been around, I believe for at least three years. Ana

Response:

Question please.

Question:

Hi all, Ive had endogenous depression all my life. For the last 5 years Ive been on 150mg of Doxepin, then in the last year my early morning wakening and feeling low returned. I had lost my job, and both my parents. I think this is the reason why Ive deteriorated. My question is, my Dr added 50 mg of Zoloft to the Doxepin. My early wakening moved to 5am instead of 2am, and I feel some relief from negative thoughts: guilt and hopelessness. Its been 3 weeks on Zoloft. Does anyone who’s been or is on Zoloft found it to be an effective medication? Thanx for any replies Rob.

Response:

I have 2 friends who it worked great for, but I don’t know their dosage. One was going through menopause and lost her mother and she said it was a lifesaver. The other just started having unexplained rage. The "only" side effects they mentioned were sexual (harder to climax) and very vivid dreams (not necessarily bad dreams). Hope that helps. hlm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all, > Ive had endogenous depression all my life. For the last 5 years Ive been on > 150mg of Doxepin, then in the last year my early morning wakening and feeling > low returned. I had lost my job, and both my parents. I think this is the > reason why Ive deteriorated. > My question is, my Dr added 50 mg of Zoloft to the Doxepin. My early wakening > moved to 5am instead of 2am, and I feel some relief from negative thoughts: > guilt and hopelessness. Its been 3 weeks on Zoloft. Does anyone who’s been or > is on Zoloft found it to be an effective medication? > Thanx for any replies > Rob.

Response:

>I have 2 friends who it worked great for, but I don’t know their dosage. >One was going through menopause and lost her mother and she said it was a >lifesaver. The other just started having unexplained rage. The "only" side >effects they mentioned were sexual (harder to climax) and very vivid dreams >(not necessarily bad dreams). Hope that helps. >hlm

Thanks for the reply Hlm. I’m new to these modern SSRIs and what with the press and their horror stories I was just wanting to know how others found it. Your info is much appreciated. Rob

Response:

Muscle pain due to tranquillizers

Question:

I have tried to get off these addictive benzos twice in 2 years and now am back again. Could not stand the withdrawals. Is anyone out there familar with using benzos and having problems with them ? Every muscle in my limbs are stiff, tight and in a dull aching pain. I have not tried anything for the pain but I am now trying Doxepin , an older anti-depressant, in order to , perhaps, help reduce somatic pain from anxiety and depression. Has anyone else out there experienced muscle weakness and stiffness and pain from using benzos ? By the way, I have found some very interesting stuff on benzos if anyone should be interested: http://www.geocities.com/benzodebate Hope someone might have some helpful suggestions on how to manage this overall pain. Thanks Randall

Response:

You might want to talk with your MD about tapering you from the benzos. This will help with the withdrawals you are feeling. They can also give you meds to help with the withdrawal symptoms (Clonidine). When it comes to benzos, having the help of your MD is best. There are too many problems that can result from coming off too quickly. Robin I am *not* a Medical Doctor (MD) or *any* other type of Medical Professional. PLEASE consult your own Dr. for medical advice. The information posted is information I have learned from researching or learning from my own disease.

Response:

I would like to add what others have said in response to your message. I, too, am NOT a physician, but know some good information about benzos. If you have been on them for a long period of time, you cannot simply stop taking them. There is a risk of seizures. And, as others have said, the doctor will need to taper you off on a VERY slow and calculated schedule. This will avoid any withdrawl symptoms. As to the muscle pain, I have never personally heard of anyone having that type of reaction. Are you on any other meds? I know that meds that control cholesterol (Lipitor, Mevacor, etc) can affect the liver and muscle tenderness is one sign of a problem. I think that you would be wise to have a complete blood workup when you talk to the doc about getting you off of the meds. Finally, there are other anti-depressants out on the market that are pretty effective in treating anxiety. The trick is to find the one that works for you. personally, I would choose a psychiatrist for getting those meds. They are usually more adept at working with that class of drugs than general MDs. I hope the info was helpful, and again, I am NOT an MD… I am only speaking on personal experience and/or personal research. Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have tried to get off these addictive benzos twice in 2 years and now am > back again. Could not stand the withdrawals. Is anyone out there familar > with using benzos and having problems with them ? > Every muscle in my limbs are stiff, tight and in a dull aching pain. I have > not tried anything for the pain but I am now trying Doxepin , an older > anti-depressant, in order to , perhaps, help reduce somatic pain from > anxiety and depression. > Has anyone else out there experienced muscle weakness and stiffness and pain > from using benzos ? > By the way, I have found some very interesting stuff on benzos if anyone > should be interested: > http://www.geocities.com/benzodebate > Hope someone might have some helpful suggestions on how to manage this > overall pain. > Thanks > Randall

Response:

DREGS, WANNA-BES, AND SYCHOPHANTS

Question:

>You ASDMers give me a chuckle. A few months ago, everyone was paroxysmal over >a pathetic yet harmless oddity known as Robert Wilkins. Now you have a >cretinous mutated cockroach such as Billy (I live in a penthouse suite in >Bellevue under a refrigerator) Alsern, and you suck up to him as if you were >greedy piglets. >Now I can appreciate the necessity and value of ASDM-M and other forums. >Viscount

<VVVVVVBS> I owe my new life to you–your post on flax seed oil has kicked my bp in the royal rear–and neurontin. Now, I’m always just a bit manic–tons of energy–and hyper vocalizing–but not as bad as before. I did stop taking doxepin–that helped a lot–so I guess I need to start tapering trazadone–but not completely–it helps me sleep. Hugs, Nancy

Response:

>I support this request for more solid information as that which you state is >not congruent with that which I have received from the horse’s mouth (as it >were.)

From Rob, or from his Dad? From someone who denied reality, or from someone trying to protect his son until the end? I guess it boils down to who you believe. I consider my source unimpeachable.

Response:

> As far as Billy is concerned, it is wise to bear in mind at all times > that he has Poetic License.

Unless of course he got pulled over and got a PUI, in which case they are revoked for a year. Mark

Response:

>As far as Billy is concerned, it is wise to bear in mind at all times >that he has Poetic License.

Is it catching? Ralph V. Dammit Jim, I’m a Bike Courier, not a Doctor

Response:

Until AOL picks up the group, you can submit posts to asdm-m by email. My news server doesn’t carry the group yet either. I understand that it can take 6 months before most ISPs pick up a new group. It’s interesting that most of europe had the group right away. Not a problem to endure you. I like to think I understand you a little, so I try to just step back out of the way. <G> Your friend too, Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I have no vested interest in any group. I just feel like this is home, but if >you send me a link to ASDM-M, I’ll crosspost anything that conforms to ASDM-M >requirements. After all, the more people involved in disseminating info about >BD, the better. >Take care and thanks for enduring me over the past month or so. >Your friend, >Fred

Response:

I don’t know, Isabel. Chat is for chatrooms, i suppose, and support and education have taken a back seat here. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Have been wondering why these exchanges are not held within a chat room – — >is it that they can’t get their act together to commune at the same time >IRL? >Bizzie Izzie >Ozzie Mozzie > Hi Mark, > Group dynamics, the nature of manic-depressives one could say — maybe so, >but > I’ve seen way too many interesting people disappear from this group in the >last > year or so, and have witnessed the devolution of ASDM into a virtual chat >room.

Response:

Well Keith.. I understand and can appreciate what you’re saying. I wasn’t aware of his criminal activities or really anything beyond the dozen or so posts I read here. He reminded me of a John Hinckley type to tell you the truth. =) I have no vested interest in any group. I just feel like this is home, but if you send me a link to ASDM-M, I’ll crosspost anything that conforms to ASDM-M requirements. After all, the more people involved in disseminating info about BD, the better. Take care and thanks for enduring me over the past month or so. Your friend, Fred – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Since you’ve made these allegations public, can you be more specific? What >crimes? Who from this group was hospitalized and for what reasons? >They weren’t from this group. And I don’t know who they were. My >source can’t be revealed and the information is priviledged…but I’m >sick of hearing that Rob was harmless. > How was >someone from this "community" harassed "across state lines?" >False allegations of child abuse and drug dealing were made to the >person’s local DA, as well as specific threats against that person. > Are you >suggesting that the FBI investigated this and determined it was >prosecutable? >That is exactly what I am saying, and the fall out from that >eventually led to Rob’s parents filing suit to have him committed. >AFAIK, the federal charges are on hold…they are the trump card that >guarantees that Rob will be kept in a place where he receives medical >care and can do no harm. >People stab other people every day of the week; get committed, too. So >you’re >surprised this could happen to a manic-depressive and ASDM-M is the >solution?? >Rob provided the greatly increased volume of posts that were needed to >justify another group, and he motivated people to come together to >make the group happen…so he did good after all. The group, however, >is for people who for whatever reason do not wish to participate in >asdm. It should be thought of as a way to reach out to more people >than we have in the past. It is not competition for asdm and was never >envisioned to be that. I don’t expect to participate all that much in >it, other than crossposting information that I think is of interest to >the community. I hope you’ll do the same. They need reliable sources >of info as much as this group does. Why shut them out just because >they don’t want to participate in the parent group? >As I recall, you were out front egging him on. Hmmmm… >I like to think that I helped push him into treatment…but had he not >screwed up and got the FBI involved, I’m sure he would still be >posting. >Really, I know things about Rob’s history that I’m not supposed to >know, and I’m trying to be careful what I say, but he is most >definitely not harmless.

Response:

I support this request for more solid information as that which you state is not congruent with that which I have received from the horse’s mouth (as it were.) — Bizzie Izzie Ozzie Mozzie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Since you’ve made these allegations public, can you be more specific? What > crimes? Who from this group was hospitalized and for what reasons? How was > someone from this "community" harassed "across state lines?" Are you > suggesting that the FBI investigated this and determined it was prosecutable? > People stab other people every day of the week; get committed, too. So you’re > surprised this could happen to a manic-depressive and ASDM-M is the solution?? > As I recall, you were out front egging him on. Hmmmm… > Viscount zone >The harmless Mr. Wilkins has federal charges pending against him…he >committed a few crimes in the process of harassing a member of this >community across state lines. Of course, now that his parent’s suit to >have him committed has been settled, it may not be necessary for him >to pay the full price for those crimes. >The several people that Rob put in the hospital prior to one of his >commitments in Florida are unlikely to consider him harmless…neither >should his parents…stabbing a father is not harmless. >A sad, sad story…hopefully Rob is getting the help he needs now. >>You ASDMers give me a chuckle. A few months ago, everyone was paroxysmal >over >>a pathetic yet harmless oddity known as Robert Wilkins. Now you have a >>cretinous mutated cockroach such as Billy (I live in a penthouse suite in >>Bellevue under a refrigerator) Alsern, and you suck up to him as if you were >>greedy piglets. >>Now I can appreciate the necessity and value of ASDM-M and other forums. >>Viscount

Response:

Jim, Everyone is Somebody! If you dont believe me, ask the tax man. Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>You ASDMers give me a chuckle. A few months ago, everyone was paroxysmal over >>a pathetic yet harmless oddity known as Robert Wilkins. Now you have a >>cretinous mutated cockroach such as Billy (I live in a penthouse suite in >>Bellevue under a refrigerator) Alsern, and you suck up to him as if you were >>greedy piglets. >>Now I can appreciate the necessity and value of ASDM-M and other forums. >>Viscount >I’m not everyone. I’m nobody. >Jim O > I can’t even get that right; that Thomas dude said it already. > Jim O

Response:

I get the biggest charge out of you, Isabel. Remember we used to talk when I

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I’m not everyone. I’m nobody. Jim O

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->You ASDMers give me a chuckle. A few months ago, everyone was paroxysmal over >a pathetic yet harmless oddity known as Robert Wilkins. Now you have a >cretinous mutated cockroach such as Billy (I live in a penthouse suite in >Bellevue under a refrigerator) Alsern, and you suck up to him as if you were >greedy piglets. >Now I can appreciate the necessity and value of ASDM-M and other forums. >Viscount >I’m not everyone. I’m nobody. >Jim O

I can’t even get that right; that Thomas dude said it already. Jim O

Response:

Have been wondering why these exchanges are not held within a chat room – — is it that they can’t get their act together to commune at the same time IRL? Bizzie Izzie Ozzie Mozzie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Mark, > Group dynamics, the nature of manic-depressives one could say — maybe so, but > I’ve seen way too many interesting people disappear from this group in the last > year or so, and have witnessed the devolution of ASDM into a virtual chat room.

Response:

You could sit in a corner in the cafe and listen – we don’t bite. Well, not often. — Bizzie Izzie Ozzie Mozzie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I don’t have to worry about posting too much, my ISP automatically cuts > me off for 24 hours if I do more than 500 posts in a 24 hour period. So > far it’s only happed three times. I’m too shy for chat rooms. > Garland > There is a danger to this, I have fallen victim, in the past and want > to warn others. Sitting if front of a computer all day, consuming you > life with little worth endeavors can be very counter-productive to > getting better. Do this in moderation. > I count my posts. If I go over ten in one day, I need to be doing > something else. > I’m glad to see you around. Hope you are well. > Hopper

Response:

Thanks Hopper. Your points are well taken. I read a few weeks ago that it’s not good to spend more than (I forget the %age) of your online time on ng’s, and when you do read your groups, an allotted time should be apportioned to each group — something like that. I’ve fallen victim to the same thing. Well wishes to you, too. Viscount – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >;<Group dynamics, the nature of manic-depressives one could say — >maybe so, but >;<I’ve seen way too many interesting people disappear from this group >in the last >;<year or so, and have witnessed the devolution of ASDM into a virtual >chat room. >Vis, I’m still very new here. I also want to thank you for your work. >I agree with the above, and have concern when the banter overwrites >information. This has been the case in the past few days. >OTOH, I see and have gained from the stress relief available by >posting nothing of consequence. > There is a danger to this, I have fallen victim, in the past and want >to warn others. Sitting if front of a computer all day, consuming you >life with little worth endeavors can be very counter-productive to >getting better. Do this in moderation. >I count my posts. If I go over ten in one day, I need to be doing >something else. >I’m glad to see you around. Hope you are well. >Hopper

Response:

How is viscount helping when he attacks my gay friends with brutal homophobia. How does he help the women here that are victims of brutal rapes by describing brutal rapes in graphic detail. Viscount foolishly turned himself into a punching bag, Not I.

Response:

> So, speaking for myself *only*, I’ve determined not to be involved in anything > unrelated to bipolar disorder (it just causes more discord) and will strive to > post accordingly.

How do you determine what is or is not related to bipolar disorder?

Response:

I don’t have to worry about posting too much, my ISP automatically cuts me off for 24 hours if I do more than 500 posts in a 24 hour period. So far it’s only happed three times. I’m too shy for chat rooms. Garland – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > There is a danger to this, I have fallen victim, in the past and want > to warn others. Sitting if front of a computer all day, consuming you > life with little worth endeavors can be very counter-productive to > getting better. Do this in moderation. > I count my posts. If I go over ten in one day, I need to be doing > something else. > I’m glad to see you around. Hope you are well. > Hopper

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Welcome back Poindexter, My humor had taken a turn to the left without your inspirition, I knew you couldn’t stay away from the freak show much longer. Your at that uncomfortable spot in life, too old to be of any use and too young to be in the home with oatmeal running down your chin and shit down your leg. When the old men give up the battle is lost, Keep the faith pops.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->You ASDMers give me a chuckle. A few months ago, everyone was paroxysmal over >a pathetic yet harmless oddity known as Robert Wilkins. Now you have a >cretinous mutated cockroach such as Billy (I live in a penthouse suite in >Bellevue under a refrigerator) Alsern, and you suck up to him as if you were >greedy piglets. >Now I can appreciate the necessity and value of ASDM-M and other forums. >Viscount

Response:

Hi Mark, I should clarify that I never mean *all* people when I refer to ASDM, but rather "on the whole." I post in Dr. Bob’s "Psycho-Babble," and you just don’t see the nonsense that pervades ASDM. I’m guilty of it myself at times, and it’s usually in response to dregs like Billy. I don’t perceive anyone as flawed in the sense that they’re sicker (I consider myself to be one of the most chronic and refractory bipolars who post here regularly) than others. Flaws to me are when someone posts misinformation as if it were "medical fact," (a la James Milton). Even the FAQ’s of ASDM are flawed last I checked them, but it’s not important. What’s important to me is that we strive to increase our knowledge and understanding of manic-depression, support one another, and unify to fight off this illness. I don’t know what it’ll list on my death certificate as "reason for death," but I know one thing it *won’t* say — that is, that bipolar disorder has strangled my life, abbreviated it, and that I died *with* this medical illness. In that regard, I can find better things to do with my time IRL than read the works of "Billies." I enjoy humor as much as the next guy, but when cruel, vulgar language and sick humor dominate what’s supposed to be a mental support and education group (on par with say a diabetes group), and knowledge comes in a distant last, then maybe it’s time to start an alternative group for those people. Wanna-bes are the ones who seem compelled to establish "control" over the group (or take their ball and run away), and sychophants are those who find it necessary to cozy up to the perceived "leaders" because they either have nothing original to say themselves or are dependent and thereby become vicarious participants. Group dynamics, the nature of manic-depressives one could say — maybe so, but I’ve seen way too many interesting people disappear from this group in the last year or so, and have witnessed the devolution of ASDM into a virtual chat room. So, speaking for myself *only*, I’ve determined not to be involved in anything unrelated to bipolar disorder (it just causes more discord) and will strive to post accordingly. I appreciate your comments, Mark, and I’m grateful that you, Peter, Garland and others have "signed up" here because you’re valuable assets and resources of knowlege aside from being fellow sufferers of bipolar disorder. Viscount – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Viscount, > From what I have gathered you have spent a long time researching >psychological disorders and medical remedies. If this is true, we need >your input to help aleviate the suffering which is ripping families apart >and driving people to near suicide. > I, on the other hand, have very limited knowledge of what to do. My >experience has been years of wasted time and heartbreak, as, I didnt >have a clue that I was bipolar. I would like to put back together the >pieces of my broken life and try to know what joy is before I die or >miss out on ever seeing my children again. > I engage in whacky banter with billy from time to time. And I know that >he has enjoyed making you the object of his often coarse humor. But >this post of your’s seems to insult me by inference. In fact, I dont see >anyone here deserving to be called a sychophant or a dreg. As far as >wanna-bes, that isnt so bad…but it wouldnt describe me unless you >mean I want to be well, which I do. > As far as RW, Keith has spoken for me. Afa, asdmm, I am glad you >have changed your previous position by 180 degrees. Won’t you >please join us in our mutual struggle for wellness, and try to appreciate >what comic relief can bring, even if it is delivered by the inmates of this >asylum? We need you, and if you consider developing a tolerance for >the flaws in others as a noble goal, then you need us. > I want to thank you again for all the medical resource links you gave >us last week I saved every single one of them. As soon as I learn how >to read, Im going to impress my friends and neighbors. I might even >find out what they put in those little pills they pawn off at the mental >health center. Now…..back to your regularly scheduled show. >Mark > You ASDMers give me a chuckle. A few months ago, everyone was paroxysmal >over > a pathetic yet harmless oddity known as Robert Wilkins. Now you have a > cretinous mutated cockroach such as Billy (I live in a penthouse suite in > Bellevue under a refrigerator) Alsern, and you suck up to him as if you >were > greedy piglets. > Now I can appreciate the necessity and value of ASDM-M and other forums. > Viscount

Response:

;<Group dynamics, the nature of manic-depressives one could say — maybe so, but ;<I’ve seen way too many interesting people disappear from this group in the last ;<year or so, and have witnessed the devolution of ASDM into a virtual chat room. Vis, I’m still very new here. I also want to thank you for your work. I agree with the above, and have concern when the banter overwrites information. This has been the case in the past few days. OTOH, I see and have gained from the stress relief available by posting nothing of consequence. There is a danger to this, I have fallen victim, in the past and want to warn others. Sitting if front of a computer all day, consuming you life with little worth endeavors can be very counter-productive to getting better. Do this in moderation. I count my posts. If I go over ten in one day, I need to be doing something else. I’m glad to see you around. Hope you are well. Hopper

Response:

Since you’ve made these allegations public, can you be more specific? What crimes? Who from this group was hospitalized and for what reasons? How was someone from this "community" harassed "across state lines?" Are you suggesting that the FBI investigated this and determined it was prosecutable? People stab other people every day of the week; get committed, too. So you’re surprised this could happen to a manic-depressive and ASDM-M is the solution?? As I recall, you were out front egging him on. Hmmmm… Viscount – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >The harmless Mr. Wilkins has federal charges pending against him…he >committed a few crimes in the process of harassing a member of this >community across state lines. Of course, now that his parent’s suit to >have him committed has been settled, it may not be necessary for him >to pay the full price for those crimes. >The several people that Rob put in the hospital prior to one of his >commitments in Florida are unlikely to consider him harmless…neither >should his parents…stabbing a father is not harmless. >A sad, sad story…hopefully Rob is getting the help he needs now. >You ASDMers give me a chuckle. A few months ago, everyone was paroxysmal >over >a pathetic yet harmless oddity known as Robert Wilkins. Now you have a >cretinous mutated cockroach such as Billy (I live in a penthouse suite in >Bellevue under a refrigerator) Alsern, and you suck up to him as if you were >greedy piglets. >Now I can appreciate the necessity and value of ASDM-M and other forums. >Viscount

Response:

You ASDMers give me a chuckle. A few months ago, everyone was paroxysmal over a pathetic yet harmless oddity known as Robert Wilkins. Now you have a cretinous mutated cockroach such as Billy (I live in a penthouse suite in Bellevue under a refrigerator) Alsern, and you suck up to him as if you were greedy piglets. Now I can appreciate the necessity and value of ASDM-M and other forums. Viscount

Response:

The harmless Mr. Wilkins has federal charges pending against him…he committed a few crimes in the process of harassing a member of this community across state lines. Of course, now that his parent’s suit to have him committed has been settled, it may not be necessary for him to pay the full price for those crimes. The several people that Rob put in the hospital prior to one of his commitments in Florida are unlikely to consider him harmless…neither should his parents…stabbing a father is not harmless. A sad, sad story…hopefully Rob is getting the help he needs now. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->You ASDMers give me a chuckle. A few months ago, everyone was paroxysmal over >a pathetic yet harmless oddity known as Robert Wilkins. Now you have a >cretinous mutated cockroach such as Billy (I live in a penthouse suite in >Bellevue under a refrigerator) Alsern, and you suck up to him as if you were >greedy piglets. >Now I can appreciate the necessity and value of ASDM-M and other forums. >Viscount

Response:

Viscount, From what I have gathered you have spent a long time researching psychological disorders and medical remedies. If this is true, we need your input to help aleviate the suffering which is ripping families apart and driving people to near suicide. I, on the other hand, have very limited knowledge of what to do. My experience has been years of wasted time and heartbreak, as, I didnt have a clue that I was bipolar. I would like to put back together the pieces of my broken life and try to know what joy is before I die or miss out on ever seeing my children again. I engage in whacky banter with billy from time to time. And I know that he has enjoyed making you the object of his often coarse humor. But this post of your’s seems to insult me by inference. In fact, I dont see anyone here deserving to be called a sychophant or a dreg. As far as wanna-bes, that isnt so bad…but it wouldnt describe me unless you mean I want to be well, which I do. As far as RW, Keith has spoken for me. Afa, asdmm, I am glad you have changed your previous position by 180 degrees. Won’t you please join us in our mutual struggle for wellness, and try to appreciate what comic relief can bring, even if it is delivered by the inmates of this asylum? We need you, and if you consider developing a tolerance for the flaws in others as a noble goal, then you need us. I want to thank you again for all the medical resource links you gave us last week I saved every single one of them. As soon as I learn how to read, Im going to impress my friends and neighbors. I might even find out what they put in those little pills they pawn off at the mental health center. Now…..back to your regularly scheduled show. Mark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You ASDMers give me a chuckle. A few months ago, everyone was paroxysmal over > a pathetic yet harmless oddity known as Robert Wilkins. Now you have a > cretinous mutated cockroach such as Billy (I live in a penthouse suite in > Bellevue under a refrigerator) Alsern, and you suck up to him as if you were > greedy piglets. > Now I can appreciate the necessity and value of ASDM-M and other forums. > Viscount

Treat You Depression

Filed under: Doxepin (Sinepin)

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