Tricyclic Antidepressants

commitment to medication

Question:

Hi Kate, Welcome to ASDM. > I’ve been taking Neurontin 600mg x 3 times a day almost 3 months now.  I > went to see a pdoc originally for depression – I’ve been hypomanic my entire > life and thought I was just ‘high energy’ and ‘active’, but I always > wondered why I couldn’t stay in a relationship, why I made such impulsive > financial decisions, etc.

It sounds as if the Neurontin is effective for you. snipped… Thank you for your post. I have emailed you a copy of the FAQs for the ng. Peace, Lynda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

>Noncompliance is a nasty borg-like word…  Don’t use it, it’s unattractive. >Noncompliance would be an appropriate word if there was a law or ordinance >that the person wasn’t following.  There is no such thing.  We’re talking >healthcare, not mind control. >-Rob

LOL!  That is so true…

Response:

>I’m new to a computer- and  bipolar-three admissions in 18 months- marriage >ended, alcohol dependant, mortage forclosed, blah blah blah- ie nothing new >in the bipolar scheme of things- is there anyone out there who has done this >without medication??? I run a company with millions of dollars worth of turn >over, published author, script writer and artist and the meds just blow me >away- I was on 2500 valproate, 100mg nortriptyline, 80 mg propranolol,  3mg >resperidone (I have bipolar, with psychotic episodes), melleril and nozinan. >I have been off drugs for 4 months- and have worked hard to keep things at >bay- have just been cut loose of the mental health system and I’m out on my >own. Feeling pretty shakey about the whole thing- has anyone any success >stories, or am I deluding myself? Is it possible?

Some people can manage without meds.Most people can’t. Some people can manage without meds some of the time. I was OK without for periods of 5 and 10 years, right now I need them very badly. Personally, in your place, I would have stuck the meds a lotlonger to get my system more stable before I tried gradually reducing some of the medications experimentally. Is the problem that you can’t tolerate side effects? Try and work out which drugs are causing you the problem and drop those (gradually). I am keen to drop my anti-psychotics, because they sedate me, and as soon as my pdoc is convinced that I am stable enough without them, we will do so. (Ironically, I actually feel a lot better at the moment even taking them. I don’t know if that is dropping the Lithium in favour of Lamictal, or taking Lamictal in favour of Lithium. Hell, I’m just glad I feel better!) Jackie Web page at http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/close/xhq10/mem.htm I’ve been Jay H, Canarybird, Empty Cage, Serin, Phoenix, even Crow. Let’s see if I can stick with this one for a while.

Response:

> You are taking a path very common with bipolars: quitting treatment. To say > whether it is possible for you to succeed would be to have an infallible > knowledge of your unique biochemistry and to predict the future. I can say > with confidence that you are taking a risk. By quitting treatment you are > risking that your symptoms will come back as bad as before, likely worse, > and possibly that you will end up involuntarily committed in a hospital, in > jail or dead from suicide.

Ending up dead is not necessarily a bad thing because at least then the big struggle will finally be over. I have come to realize that if I am going to be alive I damned well better stay in/on treatment because my life has not gone well without it. I wish the mental health system were one I could better trust because I might bolt out of fear. Anyway, to the original poster: I had the problem you seem to be describing with lithium in that it seemed like my creativity were dulled. However, all the best paintings and drawings I did I did while on lithium; go figure. I still don’t know how Wellbutrin and Depakote are going to work out. But I’ll be posting here for a while I think, so my progress will be here. I think the choice to go off meds depends a lot on the severity of the disorder. I have a tendency to get psychotic (hallucinations, delusions) and very dysphoric and I’m always hyperactive and inattentive and impulsive. I mainly have mixed episodes followed by major depression. This is the worst in my opinion, but I’m no one to say my suffering is any greater or worse than anyone else’s – suffering is suffering. — http://jenwolf.virtualave.net/

Response:

> > Ending up dead is not necessarily a bad thing because at least then the > big struggle will finally be over. > It is a problem, because if one person gives up, the people causing the > problem win, and they continue to inflict the same pain on everyone else. > -Rob

That wouldn’t matter to the dead person — http://jenwolf.virtualave.net/

Response:

What the hell are you trying to say moron. If you scream in the dark and the turn on the light are you still screaming? You are a moron wilki

Response:

Rebecca, Hi and welcome to asdm; glad you could join us.  I’m assuming from your email addy that you are from New Zealand. I really know nothing about the mental health system there.  What I am about to say is based on my own experience, the experience of other manic depressives I have known, and a great deal of reading and research.  Although most of us here fall under the wide diagnosis of bipolar, this afflliction comes in so many variations, strengths, and individual manifestations that is very hard to generalize about any aspect of it. The question of medication is THE #1 issue in most manic depressives lives.  I, and many others have struggled with this issue over long periods of time.  I have gone without medication for years without either a manic episode or a depression. But always there was the piper to pay in the form of an off the wall manic episode (read hospitalization).  After four or five of these episodes and incalculable losses in damages to loved ones, friends, career, and finances, I made the oh so astute decision to stay on medication. You say that you have been cut loose by the mental health system: I really don’t know what you mean by that.  Perhaps you need to find a pdoc who will work tirelessly at finding the right combination of drugs for you: this takes both time and patience on both your parts.  Right now I see you as being out in the cold with no protection. Rebecca, I am sorry that this is not the success story you were looking for, but it is my success story.  What have I Iost from being on medication: 1. I have lost the ability to spend $10,000 in 2 days. 2. I have greatly reduced the chances that I will cause great anxiety and emotional distress to my family. 3. I have eliminated the possibilities of putting myself in danger from ill-adviced sexual encounters. 4. I have reduced the liklihood of making outlandish mistakes in my work environment. The list goes on and on, but you get the idea. Please keep posting to the group as you make your own decisions regarding the medication question. Always, Ty The singer can’t delight you with his singing unless he himself delights to sing, Kahlil Gibran

Response:

I’m new to a computer- and  bipolar-three admissions in 18 months- marriage ended, alcohol dependant, mortage forclosed, blah blah blah- ie nothing new in the bipolar scheme of things- is there anyone out there who has done this without medication??? I run a company with millions of dollars worth of turn over, published author, script writer and artist and the meds just blow me away- I was on 2500 valproate, 100mg nortriptyline, 80 mg propranolol,  3mg resperidone (I have bipolar, with psychotic episodes), melleril and nozinan. I have been off drugs for 4 months- and have worked hard to keep things at bay- have just been cut loose of the mental health system and I’m out on my own. Feeling pretty shakey about the whole thing- has anyone any success stories, or am I deluding myself? Is it possible?

Response:

: I’m new to a computer- and  bipolar-three admissions in 18 months- marriage : ended, alcohol dependant, mortage forclosed, blah blah blah- ie nothing new : in the bipolar scheme of things- is there anyone out there who has done this : without medication??? I run a company with millions of dollars worth of turn : over, published author, script writer and artist and the meds just blow me : away- I was on 2500 valproate, 100mg nortriptyline, 80 mg propranolol, 3mg : resperidone (I have bipolar, with psychotic episodes), melleril and nozinan. : I have been off drugs for 4 months- and have worked hard to keep things at : bay- have just been cut loose of the mental health system and I’m out on my : own. Feeling pretty shakey about the whole thing- has anyone any success : stories, or am I deluding myself? Is it possible? : : : I think you already know the answers.  Not many make a success of it with out medication and medical followup, and most of those that follow that regime are just a shadow of their pre bipolar days, it takes a lot out of you, you have to make adjustments and lower your expectations somewhat.  Alcohol certainly is not a good substitute for the correct meds for you, it is a down hill slide, but you already knew that, like I said. Embrace your illness, learn to live with it, it is part of you, you are inseparable, use the benefits that may be contained therein, put them to use, those talents that exist so often with the bipolar illness.  I think Robin Williams is a manic in the closet, and he sure puts it to effective use, medication I don’t know, doesn’t seem to be medicated, Johnathan Winters……who knows, think he is a depressive, but he sure has a hypomanic side to his character. You probably already are aware that you tend to have problems with personal relationships & friendships…..just fishing, but this is the ususal case with Bp’s we tend to be loners if not by choice then by necessity,  I think my mom was Bp but was never diagnosed as such she went through 4 husbands back in the years when it wasn’t the popular thing to do, I think that had something to do with her "nerves" and moodiness and later drinking and aloneness alienating her family, she died a lonely wretched person, bp I don’t know, I got the gene someplace. Vern

Response:

Hi Rececca, Welcome to ASDM. > I’m new to a computer- and  bipolar-three admissions in 18 months- marriage > ended, alcohol dependant, mortage forclosed, blah blah blah- ie nothing new > in the bipolar scheme of things- is there anyone out there who has done this > without medication???

Som people have but they are closely monitored by a pdoc. >I run a company with millions of dollars worth of turn > over, published author, script writer and artist and the meds just blow me > away- I was on 2500 valproate, 100mg nortriptyline, 80 mg propranolol,  3mg > resperidone (I have bipolar, with psychotic episodes), melleril and nozinan. > I have been off drugs for 4 months- and have worked hard to keep things at > bay- have just been cut loose of the mental health system and I’m out on my > own.

May I ask where you live? There are several med options available today. >Feeling pretty shakey about the whole thing- has anyone any success > stories, or am I deluding myself? Is it possible?

I also have Mutiple Sclerosis and the meds were worsening my symptoms. I have been on a med holiday for over 3 months. I have never experieneced a psychosis though. I have a RX for Zyprexa when and if Dysphoria occurs. It is very effective for me. I need only to take it for a few days. Peace, — Lynda

Response:

> own. Feeling pretty shakey about the whole thing- has anyone any success > stories, or am I deluding myself? Is it possible?

Depends on your idea of success I guess. My father is very sick with this illness yet he has a job and tons of money. Of course once you’re in the union, it’s hard to get rid of you. It doesn’t sound like you have the type of job where you could join a union. — http://jenwolf.virtualave.net/

Response:

Wilkins,    you do not need to take meds because your brain is locked up, it will stay that way for a very long time,  You will spend the rest of your life thinking the same shit over and over.  To your mommy and daddy this is the cure they prayed for,   to us you are fucking boil on the buttocks. You will never be able to think for your self again Robby,  so go read a book and shut the fuck up moron.

Response:

Robbie you fucking idiot,  how can you be off meds?   your brain makes its own meds you fucking moron.   Why don’t you shut up and stop bothering people.  Go read a book moron.   Why don’t you try drinking a little urine in the morning it might settle you down some asshole. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Rebecca, >You don’t really go into your symptoms here. But I’ll tell you that I’ve >gone off medication, and I know that on medication it can be hard to live >your life like you once did (by playing with your brain neurochemistry, >you’re never really at your full potential). >I would suggest getting off the alchol first (or at least removing the >dependence), consider (strongly) something like Alcoholics anonymous.  As I >understand it, they help their members deal with emotional issues as well. >Mixing meds and alcohol probably isn’t good anyway (it may be dangerous). >The rest of your life might just fall into place after that. >-Rob > I’m new to a computer- and  bipolar-three admissions in 18 months- >marriage > ended, alcohol dependant, mortage forclosed, blah blah blah- ie nothing >new > in the bipolar scheme of things- is there anyone out there who has done >this > without medication??? I run a company with millions of dollars worth of >turn > over, published author, script writer and artist and the meds just blow me > away- I was on 2500 valproate, 100mg nortriptyline, 80 mg propranolol, >3mg > resperidone (I have bipolar, with psychotic episodes), melleril and >nozinan. > I have been off drugs for 4 months- and have worked hard to keep things at > bay- have just been cut loose of the mental health system and I’m out on >my > own. Feeling pretty shakey about the whole thing- has anyone any success > stories, or am I deluding myself? Is it possible?

Response:

I’ve been taking Neurontin 600mg x 3 times a day almost 3 months now.  I went to see a pdoc originally for depression – I’ve been hypomanic my entire life and thought I was just ‘high energy’ and ‘active’, but I always wondered why I couldn’t stay in a relationship, why I made such impulsive financial decisions, etc.  I’m 33 now, and when I first met my pdoc I started out on Celexa, then added Wellbutrin a couple months later.  I had so much anxiety from the AD’s, I had to stop taking them.  Then a few months later, I started seeing an MFCC for therapy only.  Toward the end of our first session, she said she suspected I was bipolar.  That was last September, and now I realize I was very hypomanic at that point.  I took on a bunch of consulting projects (I’m in the computer field – database programmer) and worked 70-80 hours/week throughout the fall.  I’m also a single mom of a 9 year old son, so was very busy.  I wasn’t eating or sleeping enough, and really overdid things.  In November I got a sinus infection, and once I slowed down, my life crumbled around me.  I lost a couple of the contracts I had taken on, which hurt my ego more than anything else, since I’ve always been able to juggle it all.  By January when I wasn’t feeling better after hardly working for 2 months, I finally started seriously researching BPD.  I went on 4 weeks of disability (due to the sinus infection… even my pdoc said it was better if the allergy doctor would sign off on the disability).  During that time I rested a lot, started the Neurontin, got 2 massages a week, excercised a little, and generally started taking care of myself again, and cleaning up a lot of financial messes from when I was too busy/manic to take care of mundane things like paying bills on time. I feel like I’ve struggled my whole life with this illness without knowing it.  I just always felt like my life would be great for a while, then I’d do impulsive things I wouldn’t ordinarily do (spending money, gambling, etc), and then I’d spend a lot of time trying to get my life stable.  My son has been my biggest motivation for wanting stability, and I feel fortunate that I’ve been able to provide for him on my own all these years. I used to be very anti-medication, but when I was facing the possibility of not being able to work, I really re-thought that.  I have a mild case of BPII apparently, but if being on the mood stabilizer helps me from repeating the patterns of my life, and prevents a full blown manic episode, or another severe depression,  I’m glad to be taking it. I’ve learned a lot from reading this NG the past several months, and hope to contribute regularly.  The few people in my life that I’ve told that I’m bipolar have all been disbelieving.  They don’t understand what it is, and that there are varying degrees of being manic or being depressed. Kate

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m new to a computer- and  bipolar-three admissions in 18 months- marriage > ended, alcohol dependant, mortage forclosed, blah blah blah- ie nothing new > in the bipolar scheme of things- is there anyone out there who has done this > without medication??? I run a company with millions of dollars worth of turn > over, published author, script writer and artist and the meds just blow me > away- I was on 2500 valproate, 100mg nortriptyline, 80 mg propranolol, 3mg > resperidone (I have bipolar, with psychotic episodes), melleril and nozinan. > I have been off drugs for 4 months- and have worked hard to keep things at > bay- have just been cut loose of the mental health system and I’m out on my > own. Feeling pretty shakey about the whole thing- has anyone any success > stories, or am I deluding myself? Is it possible?

Response:

> I’m new to a computer

Welcome to the wonderful world of the Internet. And welcome to our group, I’m glad you found it. I am sorry you are being immediately introduced to the "flame war" which is the Internet term for a feud of personal attacks. You will notice that in supposedly replying to you there are posts which are just getting into personal arguments that have nothing to do with you. Please try to ignore them. The Internet brings out the worst in some people, but there is much help and support to be found here. > and  bipolar-three admissions in 18 months- marriage > ended, alcohol dependant, mortage forclosed, blah blah blah- ie nothing new > in the bipolar scheme of things-

Wow, sounds like you have been through the wringer. > is there anyone out there who has done this > without medication???

To every rule there is an exception, and you will find a few bipolars who are making it without meds. However the vast majority of us in this group who are doing well are on meds. Therapy is good too. It is in the nature of our illness that symptoms come and go, and it is common to feel OK for a while even without the meds. Then comes the crash. > I run a company with millions of dollars worth of turn > over, published author, script writer and artist and the meds just blow me > away-

Can you explain what you mean by that? Were you having side effects? If so, which ones? A good working relationship (partnership) with a competent psychiatrist involves adjusting your meds until you don’t have intolerable side effects so that you can have a good quality of life. It can take a lot of trial and error and patience. A good pdoc will keep working with you and will honor your perceptions and standards for your own subjective experience of life. > I was on 2500 valproate, 100mg nortriptyline, 80 mg propranolol,  3mg > resperidone (I have bipolar, with psychotic episodes), melleril and nozinan.

That is a complex regimen. It sounds like you had some serious symptoms. > I have been off drugs for 4 months-

May I ask why you quit? > and have worked hard to keep things at > bay-

There is a lot we can do to change our lifestyle and attitudes and so forth to help our condition. I am glad you are making your health a priority even though I think you are choosing a strategy that is likely to fail. Have you stopped the drinking? > have just been cut loose of the mental health system and I’m out on my > own.

Can you please explain what you mean by "cut loose"? I don’t understand this at all. > Feeling pretty shakey about the whole thing- has anyone any success > stories, or am I deluding myself? Is it possible?

You are taking a path very common with bipolars: quitting treatment. To say whether it is possible for you to succeed would be to have an infallible knowledge of your unique biochemistry and to predict the future. I can say with confidence that you are taking a risk. By quitting treatment you are risking that your symptoms will come back as bad as before, likely worse, and possibly that you will end up involuntarily committed in a hospital, in jail or dead from suicide. Let’s talk some more. I would like to get to know you better. — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:

Response:

Filed under: Nortriptyline (Allegron)